Oh, wait, you meant the “infighting” where people *object* to this shitty behavior… Nevermind then.

Uh, since when is calling out someone’s privilege tantamount to attacking them?

This post =/= an attack on Mighty Ponygirl.

Mighty Ponygirl’s post = an attack on all marginalized people alienated by feminism.

So I guess your critique is really with MP then, right?

Systematic racism, homophobia, ableism, transphobia, etc., by privileged feminists are what weaken the feminist movement, not ignoring these things for the sake of “solidarity”.

No, I’m saying don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Leaving feminism because you’re fed up with the bigotry =/= throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Leaving feminism because you’re fed up with the bigotry = refilling the bath with fresh water.

The very first part of my “serenity prayer” was “if someone calls me on my behavior, I have a duty to listen to them seriously.”

And yet, from your recent comment on that post, it doesn’t seem like you are taking those who are calling you out on your behavior seriously. That comment read to me as snarky and dismissive toward the people who have a problem with your post and it makes it hard for me to believe that you are operating in good faith, either here or in your prayer.

Here’s the problem with your analogy regarding gamers.

If you are a gamer, and you point to GTA, Soul Calibur, and DOA, and say “Gaming has such a serious problem with sexism that I don’t want to be a gamer anymore.” You’re ignoring games that are positive — Portal, Beyond Good & Evil, Half Life etc, so you’re hurting yoursef because now you won’t play those games. You’re taking yourself out of the ranks of feminist gamers, who need your voice to make a difference in the gaming culture so that the people making the decisions do take us seriously, etc.

Here’s the problem that I see with your understanding of that analogy. Just because someone no longer calls themselves a feminist does not mean that they are no longer doing work that benefits feminist goals. One does not have identify as a “gamer” in order to play games; likewise, one does not have to identify with “feminism” in order to do progressive work that benefits women. Feminism is not the only movement that recognizes gender equality as an imperative goal. Are you really gonna argue that say, womanists, for example, are hurting women and the greater goal for equality because they choose to not identify as feminists?

If feminist gamers need the voices of the women like tekanji who are becoming increasingly disillusioned by the bigotry that they frequently find within mainstream feminist movements, then it is the responsibility of the feminists to bring them back into the fold, and not the duty of the abused parties to stay and continue to out up with said abuse for the sake of bettering their “sisters.”

If some internet feminist pops off with a hateful word, I still feel that we all have a duty to try to help that person not be such a tool. And if that help is spurned, then by all means leave! Don’t sit around and take more abuse!

Dude, it’s not just some “internet feminists” that are causing the abandonment of the feminist label by so many progressive women. Please stop acting like it’s just a bunch of random feminists on the internet acting like jerks that are causing all this. You’re being dismissive of the concerns of women who genuinely feel alienated by feminism by suggesting that they’re just get upset over “some internet feminist.” When one of the biggest feminist sites on the internet and the most well known feminist press do and say dumb racist shit that a whole hell of a lot of feminists either agree with or excuse? That’s good cause for many women to feel like feminism as a whole doesn’t represent their best interests. Just because someone drops the feminist label doesn’t mean they are pointing the finger at every single feminist and calling them a bigot. It means that sufficient numbers from within the ranks of the feminist movement have alienated them to the point that they can’t in good conscience work alongside those people anymore.

What I keep saying is, feminism does not = mind control: we don’t have any control over what people say or do, even if they’re on our side.

I think this statement makes it pretty clear what you are missing here. Just because someone identifies as feminist does not mean that they are on our side. When you say things like that, that’s what makes me feel like you’re looking at women as a monolithic whole, all united by our vaginas and that kind of attitude ignores the intersection of oppressions. Sarah Palin is a woman and apparently she identifies as a feminist days and she’s sure as hell not on my side. But that’s an extreme example. Amanda Marcotte is a feminist who does many things that are good to work toward equality for women. But someone who appropriates the work of women of color and is apparently incapable of seeing blatant racism until it’s loudly pointed out to her is not on my side. At best, I will view her with wariness, at worst I will want to disavow myself from her completely. Either way, I don’t consider her my sister or my compatriot in the fight for gender equality.

To me, she is similar to Palin in that she identifies as feminist and purports to be in favor of equality, but her actions are at odds with her words. And if enough feminists that I encounter are like this, claiming to support equality but actually ignore the oppression of anyone that’s not a straight, white, abled, rich cis woman, then the message that I am going to get is that feminism is not for me. And that is what is happening to a lot of these women who don’t want to identify with feminism anymore. It’s not just one or two individual acts of hatred or stupidity from some random feminists they see online; it’s coming from hundreds upon hundreds of feminists, it’s coming from the big names and trickles down to their supports, it’s coming from popular feminist institutions, it’s coming from everywhere. The women who are drop the label are doing so because practically everywhere they look, they see bigotry in feminism, and every time they try to fight that bigotry they are rebuffed, ridiculed and dismissed.

But to say “feminism itself is ______ and that’s why I can’t call myself a feminist anymore” tells all of us who do stick around and try to educate and raise up people in our ranks who are blind to other oppression that either we don’t exist (and I posit that we do — in more numbers than the people who are bigots), or that our attempts will ultimately fail.

No, it doesn’t. I identify as a feminist and have no intention of dropping that label, and yet, when tekanji or other women talk about how they’re not sure if they want to identify as feminist anymore, it doesn’t bother me and it doesn’t make me feel defensive. I know that when they discuss the problems with feminism they’re not talking about me, and just because they no longer wish to do their work from within the feminist movement doesn’t mean that they’re denying the work that I do or implying that I am doomed to failure. It is my choice to remain within the feminist movement despite frequent disappointments and I think my choice in the face of said disappointments is still valid. Likewise, I believe the women who leave the label of feminist behind are equally valid in their decisions. As tekanji said, there are roles for people who want to work within the movement, alongside the movement and outside of it altogether. Why does this bother you so much?

Honestly? The only reason I can think of is that it makes you feel threatened, because other people saying “Hey, feminism isn’t good enough for me” feels like an attack on you, because you feel like it is still good enough for you. Or maybe it makes you feel defensive because it suggests to you that maybe you need to re-examine your own privileges within the feminist movement and you don’t want to do that because checking our own privilege is hard and we often resist doing it. Or maybe you feel worried because the loss of these good women weaken the feminist movement as a whole and you want to see feminism be the best it can be.

If it’s the first reason, my response is that others leaving feminism is not an attack on you, anymore than calling the RE5 trailer racist is an attack upon all fans of RE everywhere. If it’s the second reason, that’s your own personal deal and you have to work through your privilege on your own and I can’t help you with that. If it’s the third reason, then I say yes, it is worrisome that many fantastic women are leaving feminism and the solution for those of us who remain is to continue to work to make feminism a more inclusive space, to make it a movement that these women want to come back to. The solution is absolutely not to tell them that they are bad for leaving feminism and that they’re hurting us all so they should just come back. That’s victim-blaming.

Do you really not see how dismissive you are being here? Your tone and your attitude are exactly why so many women are fed up with feminism–you’re not listening, you’re insisting that you know what’s best for all women (to stick with feminism, that is) and you’re outright denying or minimizing the experiences of others.

I’ve been reading FG from the start and this isn’t the first time that I’ve felt like you’re letting your privilege cloud you from seeing things that others see, or hearing what others are saying. It’s really disappointing and upsetting to see these kinds of arguments and statements coming from you because I have held FG in high regard and I have been really happy about the success you’ve enjoyed as a games blogger. I wish you the best of luck, but at this point I don’t think I will continue to support your work because even though we may both be feminists, I don’t think we’re on the same side anymore.