The moral of the story? I no longer date anyone who I don’t first have a friendship with. It’s the easiest way to screen for things like compatibility and hidden creepiness.

Does your drug dealer push crack in schoolyards because he’d sell his mother for a nickel, or does he just believe pot is safer than alcohol and the government is wrong to keep adults from using it? Does your charity guy actually give a shit about the people he’s supposedly helping, or is he just a yuppie cashing in on that “non-profit” tax to get himself and some buddies insanely wealthy (this goes on in charity a lot, actually)?

See, that kind of second-guessing is why I mostly stick with dating within my circle of friends. Which isn’t *really* dating, I’m told. Unless, I dunno, it’s more like “dating with really good references.” I’ve tried meeting people – complete strangers, in other words – but there’s always this really weird air of expectation, not even necessarily of Nice Guy creepyness but just … it’s easy to tell that I’m being “sized up,” so to speak, and there’s a very weird kind of pressure associated with the whole “are we going to be compatible?” thing. I’d rather just be friends and then, if mutual interest develops, go from there.

Of course, sometimes those friends become Nice Guys, and then there’s drama … but at least it keeps the pack healthy by weeding out the creepies.

Does your drug dealer push crack in schoolyards because he’d sell his mother for a nickel, or does he just believe pot is safer than alcohol and the government is wrong to keep adults from using it? Does your charity guy actually give a shit about the people he’s supposedly helping, or is he just a yuppie cashing in on that “non-profit” tax to get himself and some buddies insanely wealthy (this goes on in charity a lot, actually)?

The moral stance behind their choice of professions might knock one or the other out of the running for me, but not the profession alone. And then there are questions of personality and looks and all that good stuff I also require to develop interest.

The drug dealer’s personality is likely to be different from the charity guy’s personality.

One drug dealer’s personality is likely to be different than that of another drug dealer’s personality. Same goes for the charity guy.

Sure, you can argue that their choice of profession may say something about them, but it says nothing about how charming/creepy they will come off as, nor does it say anything about their attractiveness to the kinds of women they go after. Those two factors — which are determined entirely by the individual themselves, not some arbitrary set of traits they ascribe to — are major for deciding whether or not they will succeed at getting a woman interested.

The drug dealer’s personality is likely to be different from the charity guy’s personality.
If so, which would be more attractive to women–who’s got the better chance of getting a date?–if only the personality were on display without the baggage of dueling professions?

I don’t see how changing that portion of the hypothetical changes what I said.

Some Guy,

Sounds to me like you have figured out a little more. It’s good to hear back from you. It seems to me like your want to understand is genuine. I’m glad to see you didn’t end up giving up. Keep reading, keep learning, keep fighting. As we change our lives and talk about these issues with those around us we make a dent. Every dent we make brings us closer to seeing the patriarchy fall in our lifetimes. Here’s to hoping.

and

http://www.doubleyourdating.com/

And much, much more. As if there are a fixed set of Absolute Cardinal Standards for straight men, lesbians, and some bisexuals to adhere to in their quest for romance, love, and sex.

I’m not sure how the heck I got deceived…

Some women like Pepsi, some like Coke, some like Diet Pepsi, some like Diet Coke, some like both Pepsi and Coke, some don’t like cola at all.

But wait, we need a scientist to make Female Cola, a cola that all women will enjoy. How do we make this Female Cola? If we can make this cola, women would stop drinking water, orange juice, milk, coffee, tea, etc. and only drink Female Cola! A company stands to make Trillions of Dollars if it could just find the exact recipe.

Aaargh. It’s time to start all over again. Thanks Valcoris, I’ll keep that in mind.

Let’s change it a bit. They are as described, but the women they meet in the hypothetical bar don’t know their occupations.

Now what?

Some Guy:
The answer isn’t to give up it’s just to take it a little slower. Keep reading and trying to absorb as much info as you can. Tekanji has put together a huge and awesome collection of blogs and sites on her sidebar. Start by reading a few posts from each and keep up with the ones that you find most helpful or interesting. The biggest issue/mistake that your running into is trying to create a system where no system exists. Basically, if you look at it as individual to individual attraction and relation instead of trying to group people into little boxes you’ll have a much easier time. It’s about remembering each of us is attracted to different things.

I’ll take your charity guy and drug dealer theory and play with it a little. Let’s say the charity guy is well spoken, he’s not particularly funny most of the time but he holds a great conversation, he’s respectful. Let’s take your drug dealer now and make him well spoken, funny most of the time but he doesn’t do many deep conversations, he’s respectful.

Here’s what happens. If I meet both individuals I am personally more likely to like the charity guy because I prefer long deep conversations over laughs and what most consider fun. It’s a personal preference. It works the same way for any person. Some people may have an issue with the drug dealer because of his job others won’t. Some people will not like the charity guy because of his job. Some people find the funny trait more attractive, others prefer someone more serious.

The major error isn’t just taking women and makeing them a monolithic block. You have to take it to a really basic level. Does my theory or whatever assert something other than women are people? Does my theory go against the idea that all people are individuals?

The other part that is kinda eating at me is that you seem to think het sexual relationship dynamics have some magic system they run by that is wholly different. It doesn’t, all relationships are the same basic theory. Individual A likes certain things. Individual B likes certain things. If A meets B whether they form a friendship or not, whether they form a more involved relationship or not is based on the things they each like and dislike and how many or which ones of those the other person has. The things I look for in a partner might be a little different than the things I look for in a friend but it is the same basic theory.

You have to think about it this way. A man finds a women that is a perfect partner for him. She feels the same way the two enter into a relationship and live happily ever after. Would you make the assumption that the women would be the perfect partner for every man? Then why are you looking for the traits that all women find attractive?