Comments on: Reasons why unisex bathrooms are good for all http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690 Because we care about stuff Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:49:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Mircea http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-172538 Mircea Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:22:51 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-172538 I went tot this event. It was a thing on solar energy and natural living so pretty hippy right. People had booths and stuff but there were permanent buildings and the restrooms were now womens and unisex. If you were a guy in need of no 2 you could just forget it. Also I remember feeling uncomfortable using the urinal if someone female I knew walked in at the same time. I remember once a crowd of like three women. Probably in their late twenties or early thirties but looked older probably from too much partying. They were just standing between the sinks and the urinals sipping beer out of plastic cups and laughing and being obnoxious. I felt uncomfortable, my big head, but my little head. I mean if he's gonna be measured hes gonna stand up straight. That made it more awkward. And they could tell there wasen't a stream cuz they were peeking and plus I was the only guy at the urinal at the time and there wasn't a liquid splashing against porcelin sound. It was awkward I went tot this event. It was a thing on solar energy and natural living so pretty hippy right. People had booths and stuff but there were permanent buildings and the restrooms were now womens and unisex. If you were a guy in need of no 2 you could just forget it. Also I remember feeling uncomfortable using the urinal if someone female I knew walked in at the same time. I remember once a crowd of like three women. Probably in their late twenties or early thirties but looked older probably from too much partying. They were just standing between the sinks and the urinals sipping beer out of plastic cups and laughing and being obnoxious. I felt uncomfortable, my big head, but my little head. I mean if he’s gonna be measured hes gonna stand up straight. That made it more awkward. And they could tell there wasen’t a stream cuz they were peeking and plus I was the only guy at the urinal at the time and there wasn’t a liquid splashing against porcelin sound. It was awkward

]]> By: Fernando http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-172457 Fernando Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:14:09 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-172457 Public Toilets are social equalizers. They erase distinctions between the genders. Men and women are stripped of their differences. So that social class, wealth, race, age, culture, nationality, and even religion, are set aside. Two men at the urinal are equal inside a Public Toilet. Two feet under a stall have the same hierarchy. Both produce farts and both stink. It doesn't matter if a guy pooping in a stall is a blue collar worker and the guy shitting next to him is a Harvard alumnus. Both have an urgent need to shit and both are men. I assume a similar story should unfold in the ladies room. Society has accepted Public Toilets as places where differences are set aside and equality is the norm. But a major difference still exists. That between men and women. Public Toilets have failed to erase this difference. It is acceptable for a Wall Street broker to take a leak next to a construction worker, or a politician taking a dump next to a cop at an airport restroom. However, it would be unthinkable to take a dump in a restaurant while your date applies makeup, or worse still to take a leak while she takes a dump. Unisex Toilets would erase the difference in gender and in consequence would be people equalizers. They would demystify the Victorian taboo of shame between men and women when going to the bathroom. Urinating and defecating are physiological functions, just like breathing, sleeping, and eating. There's nothing wrong with them. Poop is natural and there's nothing disgusting with it if handled properly. It is society which has attached to it the taboo of uncleanliness, guilt, and shame. This can be partly understood because in the 19Th century, sewage systems were not always existent and the toilet as we know it today was not yet perfected. There were many outbreaks of cholera and other diseases. So poop was considered extremely dangerous, and it was understandable that people had an aversion to it. On the other hand, Victorian morale made it fashionable to pretend you didn't poop. The higher you were in the social scale, the less "earthly" you were. So for the higher classes, it was essential to pretend they didn't poop and thus, hide all the aspects related to pooping. That's how the water closet (W.C.) became invented. And that's how privacy became the norm. If pooping was considered taboo for society as a whole, for women it was unthinkable. Girls don't poop and the only thing emanating from a women's body should be the scent of roses. That was the prevailing ideology and that's the primary reason why men and women are segregated when going to the bathroom. At least in Western society. Opponents of Unisex Toilets might argue that they're not soundproof. True, but what's wrong with hearing farts, plops, or crackling sounds after all. They're not worse than hearing someone blowing their nose. Or sneezing, or coughing. They may argue that they're not smell proof. True, you can smell someone’s gas but what else would you expect in a public restroom. And would you really care if the poop smell comes from a man or a woman. Poop always stinks. They may argue they're not visual proof. So, what's the big deal with seeing someone’s shoes, or high heels under a stall. You're not seeing nudity or anything else you wouldn't see outside the restroom. Finally, the test of fire. Women might get offended by seeing a man's penis. Regarding this delicate issue. There's no reason why a woman should see a penis inside a Unisex Toilet more than a man seeing a vagina. However, since men in a hurry sometimes unzip before getting to the urinal accidentally, my solution would be placing the urinals in a separate area were women would be visually protected. That way, this issue would be solved once and for all. Furthermore, since most people (men and women) entering a Public Toilet go for a # 1, pooping issues would be minimized. Most women would use the stalls to pee, and if they pooped, it would not be such an issue for them since they always use stalls. On the other hand, most men would use the urinals, and given their location it would not pose any problem. If a man do needed to pass a b.m., he would use a stall, and this would not pose any problems for him. It has always been more acceptable for a man to show his human side than for a woman. And he would be surrounded mostly by women using the stalls who would not care. Women only care about piss in the seat and this would not be the case. A Unisex Toilet does bring some changes. Women can no longer go to the bathroom without the presence of men, and thus, cannot discuss women only issues but would be compensated by shorter queues. And if space affords it, a separate women's lounge with a few women only stalls could be considered (if the restroom is large enough of course). Regarding the main stalls, they should all be labeled for men and women and most if not all, should have tampon dispensers for women. The few without them should have a men sign on them although women could use them as well. Changes for men would be minimal, since men don't go in groups to the bathroom and don't linger in it like women. Men would tend to wash their hands since it would be embarrassing not doing so in front of women. The biggest issue for a guy would be realizing that a girl poops and this is something which could be very weird for us. However, a Unisex Toilet would prepare people to accept the fact that everyone poops, and it's no big deal, just as gender specific bathrooms do between the genders. However Unisex Toilets can work better in some places than others. They can be more easily accepted in places were chances of meeting someone you know are very small, places with very open minded people, places were everyone is just too drunk to care, or simply places were people are desperate to go or no other option is available. When you gotta go you gotta go. From the builder's perspective, the main reasons to install a Unisex Toilet are space at a premium, better utilization and less queues, which lead to efficiency and better allocated resources, and economies of scale. Some place may even install Unisex Toilets deliberately, since it may be fashionable, like some trendy bars and restaurants. Others may install them to generate a certain dynamic between people, like some companies (Ally Mc'Beal series). Once a coworker has heard you poop, the relation goes to a deeper level (nothing sexual involved). There should be at least one of these elements involved so that the probability of success is reasonable particularly the ones involving the users. In conclusion, Unisex Toilets can be installed in most places where at least one reason exists to justify them. Men and women can get used to them and accept them without major problems. Pooping is natural and the taboo around it is largely unfounded and obsolete. In the 21st century we should get rid of Victorian ideas of denying bodily functions. Men and women are equally capable, and can be civilized enough to share a common restroom. This doesn't mean the end of the magic between the genders. On the contrary, it celebrates our differences and highlights the fact that we are all humans and humanity should be united. Public Toilets are social equalizers. They erase distinctions between the genders. Men and women are stripped of their differences. So that social class, wealth, race, age, culture, nationality, and even religion, are set aside. Two men at the urinal are equal inside a Public Toilet. Two feet under a stall have the same hierarchy. Both produce farts and both stink. It doesn’t matter if a guy pooping in a stall is a blue collar worker and the guy shitting next to him is a Harvard alumnus. Both have an urgent need to shit and both are men. I assume a similar story should unfold in the ladies room.

Society has accepted Public Toilets as places where differences are set aside and equality is the norm. But a major difference still exists. That between men and women. Public Toilets have failed to erase this difference. It is acceptable for a Wall Street broker to take a leak next to a construction worker, or a politician taking a dump next to a cop at an airport restroom. However, it would be unthinkable to take a dump in a restaurant while your date applies makeup, or worse still to take a leak while she takes a dump.

Unisex Toilets would erase the difference in gender and in consequence would be people equalizers. They would demystify the Victorian taboo of shame between men and women when going to the bathroom. Urinating and defecating are physiological functions, just like breathing, sleeping, and eating. There’s nothing wrong with them. Poop is natural and there’s nothing disgusting with it if handled properly. It is society which has attached to it the taboo of uncleanliness, guilt, and shame. This can be partly understood because in the 19Th century, sewage systems were not always existent and the toilet as we know it today was not yet perfected. There were many outbreaks of cholera and other diseases. So poop was considered extremely dangerous, and it was understandable that people had an aversion to it. On the other hand, Victorian morale made it fashionable to pretend you didn’t poop. The higher you were in the social scale, the less “earthly” you were. So for the higher classes, it was essential to pretend they didn’t poop and thus, hide all the aspects related to pooping. That’s how the water closet (W.C.) became invented. And that’s how privacy became the norm. If pooping was considered taboo for society as a whole, for women it was unthinkable. Girls don’t poop and the only thing emanating from a women’s body should be the scent of roses. That was the prevailing ideology and that’s the primary reason why men and women are segregated when going to the bathroom. At least in Western society.

Opponents of Unisex Toilets might argue that they’re not soundproof. True, but what’s wrong with hearing farts, plops, or crackling sounds after all. They’re not worse than hearing someone blowing their nose. Or sneezing, or coughing. They may argue that they’re not smell proof. True, you can smell someone’s gas but what else would you expect in a public restroom. And would you really care if the poop smell comes from a man or a woman. Poop always stinks. They may argue they’re not visual proof. So, what’s the big deal with seeing someone’s shoes, or high heels under a stall. You’re not seeing nudity or anything else you wouldn’t see outside the restroom. Finally, the test of fire. Women might get offended by seeing a man’s penis. Regarding this delicate issue. There’s no reason why a woman should see a penis inside a Unisex Toilet more than a man seeing a vagina. However, since men in a hurry sometimes unzip before getting to the urinal accidentally, my solution would be placing the urinals in a separate area were women would be visually protected. That way, this issue would be solved once and for all.

Furthermore, since most people (men and women) entering a Public Toilet go for a # 1, pooping issues would be minimized. Most women would use the stalls to pee, and if they pooped, it would not be such an issue for them since they always use stalls. On the other hand, most men would use the urinals, and given their location it would not pose any problem. If a man do needed to pass a b.m., he would use a stall, and this would not pose any problems for him. It has always been more acceptable for a man to show his human side than for a woman. And he would be surrounded mostly by women using the stalls who would not care. Women only care about piss in the seat and this would not be the case.

A Unisex Toilet does bring some changes. Women can no longer go to the bathroom without the presence of men, and thus, cannot discuss women only issues but would be compensated by shorter queues. And if space affords it, a separate women’s lounge with a few women only stalls could be considered (if the restroom is large enough of course). Regarding the main stalls, they should all be labeled for men and women and most if not all, should have tampon dispensers for women. The few without them should have a men sign on them although women could use them as well. Changes for men would be minimal, since men don’t go in groups to the bathroom and don’t linger in it like women. Men would tend to wash their hands since it would be embarrassing not doing so in front of women. The biggest issue for a guy would be realizing that a girl poops and this is something which could be very weird for us. However, a Unisex Toilet would prepare people to accept the fact that everyone poops, and it’s no big deal, just as gender specific bathrooms do between the genders.

However Unisex Toilets can work better in some places than others. They can be more easily accepted in places were chances of meeting someone you know are very small, places with very open minded people, places were everyone is just too drunk to care, or simply places were people are desperate to go or no other option is available. When you gotta go you gotta go. From the builder’s perspective, the main reasons to install a Unisex Toilet are space at a premium, better utilization and less queues, which lead to efficiency and better allocated resources, and economies of scale. Some place may even install Unisex Toilets deliberately, since it may be fashionable, like some trendy bars and restaurants. Others may install them to generate a certain dynamic between people, like some companies (Ally Mc’Beal series). Once a coworker has heard you poop, the relation goes to a deeper level (nothing sexual involved). There should be at least one of these elements involved so that the probability of success is reasonable particularly the ones involving the users.

In conclusion, Unisex Toilets can be installed in most places where at least one reason exists to justify them. Men and women can get used to them and accept them without major problems. Pooping is natural and the taboo around it is largely unfounded and obsolete. In the 21st century we should get rid of Victorian ideas of denying bodily functions. Men and women are equally capable, and can be civilized enough to share a common restroom. This doesn’t mean the end of the magic between the genders. On the contrary, it celebrates our differences and highlights the fact that we are all humans and humanity should be united.

]]> By: Katherine http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-172365 Katherine Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:24:40 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-172365 Not enough love for the family friendly argument. My parents used to share the responsibility of showering my sister and I after we went swimming, and my dad would usually overhear several comments that it was wrong for him to have one of us in the shower with him. The changing rooms at the public pool were unisex, with women's toilets and showers at one end and men's at the other. More family safe areas! If it's not wrong to have preschool boys in the women's changing room, it's not wrong to have preschool girls in the men's changing room! Not enough love for the family friendly argument. My parents used to share the responsibility of showering my sister and I after we went swimming, and my dad would usually overhear several comments that it was wrong for him to have one of us in the shower with him. The changing rooms at the public pool were unisex, with women’s toilets and showers at one end and men’s at the other. More family safe areas! If it’s not wrong to have preschool boys in the women’s changing room, it’s not wrong to have preschool girls in the men’s changing room!

]]> By: sreya http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-170584 sreya Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:40:11 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-170584 I think unisex bathrooms would become a meca for pedophiles, flashers and under the stall door peepers. It's a horrible idea. I think unisex bathrooms would become a meca for pedophiles, flashers and under the stall door peepers.
It’s a horrible idea.

]]> By: Anny http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-168268 Anny Tue, 05 Feb 2008 02:20:38 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-168268 My college converted a lot of bathrooms to "gender neutral" a couple of years ago, and I think it's been a positive change. Another added perk- by making some of the bathrooms in the dorms gender neutral, they reduced the need for people to walk to the other end of the hallway or to another floor to find an appropriately gendered bathroom. Also, Steve makes a good point! My college converted a lot of bathrooms to “gender neutral” a couple of years ago, and I think it’s been a positive change. Another added perk- by making some of the bathrooms in the dorms gender neutral, they reduced the need for people to walk to the other end of the hallway or to another floor to find an appropriately gendered bathroom.

Also, Steve makes a good point!

]]> By: sara no h. http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-166390 sara no h. Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:10:20 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-166390 <blockquote>The social attitude might be eliminated if women could feel free to say stuff like “Excuse me, I gotta take a crap/sh*t/dump, I’ll be back in 10 minutes” or stuff like that. Or maybe not, I don’t know. What would you think?</blockquote> Of course, it'd help too if we didn't get stupid relationship advice "experts" suggesting that sharing time in the bathroom (of the "I know you're showering but I need to take a shit, I'm coming in" variety) erodes eroticism and sexuality because, you know, there are some things couples just <i>shouldn't</i> share, and how will a man ever be able to think of his wife/girlfriend the same way if he has to smell her shit? (I can't find the article, it was probably on Yahoo though.) Also, I <i>am</i> one of those people who will get constipated because I can't take a crap if there are other people in the house, let alone within hearing or smelling range, and if I absolutely have to I go around checking to ensure that no one will need the bathroom for a good half hour. (We only have one bathroom. I think it should be illegal to build single-restroom places but that's just me.) Back onto the topic of unisex bathrooms and not my plumbing problems -- I'm wholly in favour of them, for all of the reasons you've mentioned, and no, I don't think liability is some kind of excuse. You're just as vulnerable in segregated restrooms and nobody's sued for being harassed in one of those yet, have they? The only argument I can see, so far, is maintaining the difference in line length because <i>damn</i> it is nice to be able to just sneak into the guys' room when the women's line is too friggin' long.

The social attitude might be eliminated if women could feel free to say stuff like “Excuse me, I gotta take a crap/sh*t/dump, I’ll be back in 10 minutes” or stuff like that. Or maybe not, I don’t know. What would you think?

Of course, it’d help too if we didn’t get stupid relationship advice “experts” suggesting that sharing time in the bathroom (of the “I know you’re showering but I need to take a shit, I’m coming in” variety) erodes eroticism and sexuality because, you know, there are some things couples just shouldn’t share, and how will a man ever be able to think of his wife/girlfriend the same way if he has to smell her shit? (I can’t find the article, it was probably on Yahoo though.)

Also, I am one of those people who will get constipated because I can’t take a crap if there are other people in the house, let alone within hearing or smelling range, and if I absolutely have to I go around checking to ensure that no one will need the bathroom for a good half hour. (We only have one bathroom. I think it should be illegal to build single-restroom places but that’s just me.)

Back onto the topic of unisex bathrooms and not my plumbing problems — I’m wholly in favour of them, for all of the reasons you’ve mentioned, and no, I don’t think liability is some kind of excuse. You’re just as vulnerable in segregated restrooms and nobody’s sued for being harassed in one of those yet, have they?

The only argument I can see, so far, is maintaining the difference in line length because damn it is nice to be able to just sneak into the guys’ room when the women’s line is too friggin’ long.

]]> By: tekanji http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-165841 tekanji Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:41:17 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-165841 <b>Beste said:</b> <blockquote>I would support unisex bathrooms as long they have urinals in them..</blockquote> Keeping the urinals would definitely be a good idea. In my mind I imagine them being off to one side of the stalls with a divider blocking the urinals from casual onlookers. <b>Some Guy said:</b> <blockquote>The social attitude might be eliminated if women could feel free to say stuff like “Excuse me, I gotta take a crap/sh*t/dump, I’ll be back in 10 minutes” or stuff like that. Or maybe not, I don’t know. What would you think?</blockquote> Well, I'm the type of person who has to purposefully remember to <i>not</i> say that kind of thing in polite company, so I'm not the best person to ask about that social convention. Personally, I think unisex bathrooms would probably do a lot to ease that kind of pressure, but if not there's always the option of what Japan does in a lot of its washrooms: add a machine that emits the sound of running water in order to mask the sound of urinating and/or defecation. Some of them also apparently also release air freshener to mask the smell. Beste said:

I would support unisex bathrooms as long they have urinals in them..

Keeping the urinals would definitely be a good idea. In my mind I imagine them being off to one side of the stalls with a divider blocking the urinals from casual onlookers.

Some Guy said:

The social attitude might be eliminated if women could feel free to say stuff like “Excuse me, I gotta take a crap/sh*t/dump, I’ll be back in 10 minutes” or stuff like that. Or maybe not, I don’t know. What would you think?

Well, I’m the type of person who has to purposefully remember to not say that kind of thing in polite company, so I’m not the best person to ask about that social convention.

Personally, I think unisex bathrooms would probably do a lot to ease that kind of pressure, but if not there’s always the option of what Japan does in a lot of its washrooms: add a machine that emits the sound of running water in order to mask the sound of urinating and/or defecation. Some of them also apparently also release air freshener to mask the smell.

]]> By: BetaCandy http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-165803 BetaCandy Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:33:07 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-165803 Also, plumbing is very expensive to build, and unisex plumbing could really cut that expense down. Many small buildings (like restaurants) could make do with just one of the two restrooms they would normally build. Big projects like stadiums and concert halls - often at least partially funded by local tax dollars - might see really significant savings. I've seen powder rooms in a lot of department stores in the US. Also, plumbing is very expensive to build, and unisex plumbing could really cut that expense down. Many small buildings (like restaurants) could make do with just one of the two restrooms they would normally build. Big projects like stadiums and concert halls – often at least partially funded by local tax dollars – might see really significant savings.

I’ve seen powder rooms in a lot of department stores in the US.

]]> By: Some Guy http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-165789 Some Guy Thu, 31 Jan 2008 03:41:23 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-165789 Aren't women under pressure to maintain the illusion that they don't sh*t? Given that throughout history, men are "supposed" to be the stinky, gross gender, while women are "supposed" to be perfectly clean and neat, how could they ever admit that their glorious and clean bodies produce the same brown stuff that us dirty stinky guys do. Pretty silly, huh? It is a subtle social attitude nonetheless. It may be still necessary to keep the genders separate, or men might figure out the big "secret". There might be a lot of nervousness, if women feel the need to maintain the illusion, or if men should otherwise be totally ignorant of the processes of the standard human digestive system. I guess it will have to be 3 bathrooms like they have here in Newfoundland: Men, Women, and Unisex (usually called "Family"). The social attitude might be eliminated if women could feel free to say stuff like "Excuse me, I gotta take a crap/sh*t/dump, I'll be back in 10 minutes" or stuff like that. Or maybe not, I don't know. What would you think? It's pretty weird how these attitudes occur. I'm pretty sure most people know that women indeed do defecate anyway. Heck, some heterosexual men even have a scat fetish. And somebody invented the term "Waffle Crapper", Urban Dictionary could tell you more about it. I personally wouldn't mind having all unisex bathrooms. :) Aren’t women under pressure to maintain the illusion that they don’t sh*t?

Given that throughout history, men are “supposed” to be the stinky, gross gender, while women are “supposed” to be perfectly clean and neat, how could they ever admit that their glorious and clean bodies produce the same brown stuff that us dirty stinky guys do.

Pretty silly, huh? It is a subtle social attitude nonetheless. It may be still necessary to keep the genders separate, or men might figure out the big “secret”. There might be a lot of nervousness, if women feel the need to maintain the illusion, or if men should otherwise be totally ignorant of the processes of the standard human digestive system.

I guess it will have to be 3 bathrooms like they have here in Newfoundland: Men, Women, and Unisex (usually called “Family”).

The social attitude might be eliminated if women could feel free to say stuff like “Excuse me, I gotta take a crap/sh*t/dump, I’ll be back in 10 minutes” or stuff like that. Or maybe not, I don’t know. What would you think?

It’s pretty weird how these attitudes occur. I’m pretty sure most people know that women indeed do defecate anyway. Heck, some heterosexual men even have a scat fetish. And somebody invented the term “Waffle Crapper”, Urban Dictionary could tell you more about it.

I personally wouldn’t mind having all unisex bathrooms. :)

]]> By: Beste http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690/comment-page-1#comment-165712 Beste Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:51:45 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2008-01-29_690#comment-165712 I would support unisex bathrooms as long they have urinals in them.. I would support unisex bathrooms as long they have urinals in them..

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