Intent is a part of what matters. Your friend would likely find the anger at being struck easier to let go of once he or she knew it was an accident. BUT that the injury was unintended does not make the injury go away. A failure to apologize and an insisitence that you are in the right when you injure people because you’re not paying attention makes you look like a jackass.

Exactly. I didn’t see anyone trying to argue that intent wasn’t worth noting, just that it doesn’t excuse hurtful behavior.

But comparing the harm from a physical accident to the harm of an unintended turn of phrase is with very little parallel.

So it’s all “sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me”? Bullshit. If that was the case - why care about even “rape = surprise sex”?

But when it comes to individual conversation and interactions, be mindful that not all people will know or see what you do. Don’t assume that what is “truth” to you is the same for everyone else. Simply because you perceive intolerance from others, doesn’t mean you should engage likewise.

I don’t assume they think the way I do. That’s why I tell them when they’ve said something insensitive or offensive to me. How else are they supposed to know?

Oh but wait, apparently telling them that they’re being ignorant jackasses is being intolerant … of their ignorant jackassery. So, they don’t have to tolerate my calling them out, but I‘m supposed to tolerate the behaviour that needs calling out?

You make no sense.

You act as if you have all the answers, but you’re out of your league here. You’re blindly arguing for allowing privileged people to continue ignorantly hurting people, excusing their behaviour while trying to suppress any criticism by “cautioning” against being “intolerant” when you have no more to go on of the behaviour of the critics than you do of the criticized.

So, kindly, educate yourself and until you can come up with arguments that haven’t been brought up — and debunked — a thousand times, do yourself a favour and be quiet and listen rather than trying to speak over us. I’m no longer going to give you the benefit of the doubt about your ignorance regarding your own privilege, as you have proved — on this thread, and others — that you are unwilling to challenge your own privileged assumptions.

I suggest reading through the links provided in the Feminism 101 blog, and then going to Feminist Allies, malefeminists, and/or Patriarchy Hurts Men Too in order to engage with your subjects, as those communities are there for that kind of discussion and learning.

You are not expressly banned from here, but I will no longer allow any comments of yours that are ignorantly harmful to go through. I’m not your educator, my regulars are not your educators, and my blogroll provides more than enough information for you to get a baseline of knowledge to argue from, so you have no excuse for not educating yourself.

Actually, what makes it more difficult to change the culture is to tolerate the stupidity, sexism, and bigotry therein. If women “let it go” every single time, what incentive is there for men to change? Because either they’re bigoted and don’t care or they’re bigoted and blissfully unaware. Neither of these situations makes things the slightest bit better for the party who’s being told to suck it up.

But comparing the harm from a physical accident to the harm of an unintended turn of phrase is with very little parallel. We’ve all felt some measure of physical pain, so we all know how real it is. But not all of us are wired the same way when it comes to emotional or mental harm. Sure, we’ve all lost relatives and felt the emotional pain associated with loss. But not all of us take insults from others personally. We’re not all wired the same when it comes to perceiving the world.

Let’s say that your friends and family know not to talk about those certain things in your presence that might be triggering. You know each and every person in your family and they know you. The harm seems to come when we begin to take things personally from people that don’t even know us or see us as people. We are outside of their awareness. Their … Monkeysphere if you will indulge.

What if you were speaking with your friend in a public place and you said something that offended me? In turn, I go up to you and ask you to apologize. Technically you weren’t talking to me, the words you spoke were not meant for me, but I heard it. You’d tell me to go away, wouldn’t you? I mean you’ve just offended me, someone you’ve never met before, by speaking disdainfully about a prominent political figure who was my grandmother. But to you, she’s just a lying, thieving, anti-abortionist, con-artist. See the disconnect? You don’t see my grandmother as a person, but more like some evil politician that needs to step down. When you see someone like that, why would you apologize for speaking your opinion?

It’s the same when people say “I got totally raped by that test”. They won’t always see offense in that because they themselves are not offended by it. They don’t consider your feelings because they weren’t talking to you. You may be the first person that they have ever met to take offense to that. So, how would you expect them to apologize to someone they’ve never met before for a phrase they commonly say? They also just barely see you as person.

And it’s not just you. It’s everything and everyone from PETA, NAACP, NASA, Boy Scouts of America, politicians, pundits, religious institutions, and a bunch of other influential people and organizations in varied media that claim “offense” in the eyes of everyone else. It’s too many people to keep in mind to not offend everyone. We can’t possibly be sensitive in regards to everyone when communicating. We can only do this with people we know and no one can possibly know everyone. No one has the mind of a god. You will always offend someone, that’s part of being human in a world of billions of other humans. If you think otherwise, just drive on any highway for a few hours. It’s tolerance in the face of insult and bigotry that helps us get along with each other. I’ve written such isms off as “facts of life”.

Sara: Do not equate tolerance as silence or as “coming in second”. By all means, rally, protest, speak out, spread awareness. But when it comes to individual conversation and interactions, be mindful that not all people will know or see what you do. Don’t assume that what is “truth” to you is the same for everyone else. Simply because you perceive intolerance from others, doesn’t mean you should engage likewise. Take example from me. Though you’ve potentially insulted me, I do you no disservice.

People are more likely to agree and be receptive to you if you can make them think that this benefits them as well, as opposed to putting them on the offensive/defensive by shouting in their faces.

As much as I’m now disinclined to take anything you say seriously — there’s a big difference between shouting in someone’s face and telling them that they’ve said something that hurts you.

Almost any word by itself is value-neutral (words only used as slurs tend not to be). The words “knight” and “secretary” are not in themselves good or bad, but they are not culture-neutral. Compare the mental images that come to mind with each, particularly time period and gender. Different people’s images may not be identical, but are usually similar enough to that communication is clear. As with the words I gave as examples, gender is deeply coded in our language. The value of a word to a person can be inferred by the words it’s surrounded by. If I had a nickel for every time a guy said, “I got totally raped by that test,” called another man a “pussy”, or said, “That’s so gay,” within my earshot I would be a rich, rich woman. Femaleness is devalued, homosexuality is equated with lame and stupid, and rape is something so pedestrian a guy can use it as a figure of speech when he does badly on a test. Once you become conscious of these messages, it’s hard not to see how pervasive it is. It’s uncomfortable to be told you’re part of the problem, undoubtedly. But is it not worse to keep acting in ways that alienate and debase many of the women around you?

Tekanji: Thank you for the link.