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	<title>Comments on: Femininity, it&#8217;s not just for the wimmins</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477</link>
	<description>Because we care about stuff</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-15586</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 19:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-15586</guid>
		<description>Please do, Ragnell!  I have to say...even though I wrote up the idea, I haven't really spent time defending my feminine practices, so I haven't consciously thought about various "pros" when other people are telling me about all the "cons."

So yeah, I'd love to see this happen, but I can't imagine having anything to author for at least a few months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please do, Ragnell!  I have to say&#8230;even though I wrote up the idea, I haven&#8217;t really spent time defending my feminine practices, so I haven&#8217;t consciously thought about various &#8220;pros&#8221; when other people are telling me about all the &#8220;cons.&#8221;</p>
<p>So yeah, I&#8217;d love to see this happen, but I can&#8217;t imagine having anything to author for at least a few months.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14748</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14748</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If it became the norm for men to wear makeup, it would just lead to the attitude that menâ€™s makeup is better than womenâ€™s makeup.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I kind of addressed that, but here's the thing...I get the impression that often, when something is a mixed bag of disadvantages and advantages and has previously been assigned to a less privileged group, when the privileged group takes it on, they get rid of many of the disadvantages--and make it "cool" to have a version that truly &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; better!

For example, purses...the better version is a messenger bag / laptop bag.  Had women been doing ugly, practical one-shoulder bags long before they caught on with European men?  Yes.  But could a professional woman look promotable sporting one?  Not until men decided they were a great idea to carry.

Unfair that it took men to popularize an improvement upon the pretty purse?  Yes.  But still an improvement for all?  Yes.
 &#160; 
 &#160; 
I don't think your scenario--where men invent a brand new "purse" out of nowhere--is nearly as likely for things that have already existed assigned to women for a long time.  That is, "feminine" things.

Makeup has been around as a mixed bag of blessing &#38; burden for a long time...and I can't imagine you can come up w/ much more to improve it.  Someone probably already tried it and sold it to a few hippie women who were willing to buck judgment.  I can't imagine men inventing a new makeup that's solely for them as much as popularizing a better makeup (perhaps a lighter one) that women will finally be allowed to wear without harsh judgment, too.
 &#160; 
 &#160; 
What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If it became the norm for men to wear makeup, it would just lead to the attitude that menâ€™s makeup is better than womenâ€™s makeup.</p></blockquote>
<p>I kind of addressed that, but here&#8217;s the thing&#8230;I get the impression that often, when something is a mixed bag of disadvantages and advantages and has previously been assigned to a less privileged group, when the privileged group takes it on, they get rid of many of the disadvantages&#8211;and make it &#8220;cool&#8221; to have a version that truly <i>is</i> better!</p>
<p>For example, purses&#8230;the better version is a messenger bag / laptop bag.  Had women been doing ugly, practical one-shoulder bags long before they caught on with European men?  Yes.  But could a professional woman look promotable sporting one?  Not until men decided they were a great idea to carry.</p>
<p>Unfair that it took men to popularize an improvement upon the pretty purse?  Yes.  But still an improvement for all?  Yes.<br />
 &nbsp;<br />
 &nbsp;<br />
I don&#8217;t think your scenario&#8211;where men invent a brand new &#8220;purse&#8221; out of nowhere&#8211;is nearly as likely for things that have already existed assigned to women for a long time.  That is, &#8220;feminine&#8221; things.</p>
<p>Makeup has been around as a mixed bag of blessing &amp; burden for a long time&#8230;and I can&#8217;t imagine you can come up w/ much more to improve it.  Someone probably already tried it and sold it to a few hippie women who were willing to buck judgment.  I can&#8217;t imagine men inventing a new makeup that&#8217;s solely for them as much as popularizing a better makeup (perhaps a lighter one) that women will finally be allowed to wear without harsh judgment, too.<br />
 &nbsp;<br />
 &nbsp;<br />
What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Ragnell</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14625</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14625</guid>
		<description>I'm tempted to do one on why men would like skirts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m tempted to do one on why men would like skirts.</p>
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		<title>By: Djiril</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14564</link>
		<dc:creator>Djiril</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Dec 2006 01:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14564</guid>
		<description>The trouble is, when it becomes the norm for men to do something traditionally feminine, it doesn't necessarily translate into people reconsidering attitudes toward femininity and masculinity.  If it became the norm for men to wear makeup, it would just lead to the attitude that men's makeup is better than women's makeup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trouble is, when it becomes the norm for men to do something traditionally feminine, it doesn&#8217;t necessarily translate into people reconsidering attitudes toward femininity and masculinity.  If it became the norm for men to wear makeup, it would just lead to the attitude that men&#8217;s makeup is better than women&#8217;s makeup.</p>
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		<title>By: tekanji</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14431</link>
		<dc:creator>tekanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 03:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14431</guid>
		<description>Haha, I found the same video. It's up on my LJ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, I found the same video. It&#8217;s up on my LJ.</p>
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		<title>By: jfpbookworm</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14430</link>
		<dc:creator>jfpbookworm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 03:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-12-08_477#comment-14430</guid>
		<description>Coincidentally, I found a &lt;a href="http://thezeroboss.com/2006/12/08/real-men-knit-how-to-strike-a-blow-against-machofacism/" rel="nofollow"&gt;link&lt;/a&gt; to a video called &lt;a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jYa_rJyG18&#38;eurl=" rel="nofollow"&gt;Real Men Knit&lt;/a&gt;.  The video still does some gender typing in the "you can knit and still watch football, drink beer, etc.", and repackages it as a "traditional masculinity" outside of contemporary culture (beards, Celtic music in the background, etc.), but it's another way of selling the widening of gender roles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coincidentally, I found a <a href="http://thezeroboss.com/2006/12/08/real-men-knit-how-to-strike-a-blow-against-machofacism/" rel="nofollow">link</a> to a video called <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jYa_rJyG18&amp;eurl=" rel="nofollow">Real Men Knit</a>.  The video still does some gender typing in the &#8220;you can knit and still watch football, drink beer, etc.&#8221;, and repackages it as a &#8220;traditional masculinity&#8221; outside of contemporary culture (beards, Celtic music in the background, etc.), but it&#8217;s another way of selling the widening of gender roles.</p>
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