Comments on: Female Villains Can’t Win http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410 Because we care about stuff Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:41:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: tekanji http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-12451 tekanji Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:31:48 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-12451 <b>Zeev:</b> Of course this is an improvement, not just from NWN 1, but from a lot of video games out there. I acknowledge this in my article, and indeed most of what I say is praise of the character designs for laying the foundation for a broader range of female villian archetypes. My point, however, is that <i>even with</i> those improvements, they can't escape being sexualized -- not just in the screenshots, but as importantly by the author of the Joystiq article. The parts that I praise, he criticizes because it doesn't fit the "hot babe" villain archetype that is the most common for women in video games (and, indeed, most of the mainstream fantasy genre). Sexy women are not a problem, but when there's a culture of entitlement that <i>expects</i> sexy women and therefore <i>limits</i> the range of expression for female characters then that <i>is</i> a problem. Does that make sense? Zeev: Of course this is an improvement, not just from NWN 1, but from a lot of video games out there. I acknowledge this in my article, and indeed most of what I say is praise of the character designs for laying the foundation for a broader range of female villian archetypes.

My point, however, is that even with those improvements, they can’t escape being sexualized — not just in the screenshots, but as importantly by the author of the Joystiq article. The parts that I praise, he criticizes because it doesn’t fit the “hot babe” villain archetype that is the most common for women in video games (and, indeed, most of the mainstream fantasy genre). Sexy women are not a problem, but when there’s a culture of entitlement that expects sexy women and therefore limits the range of expression for female characters then that is a problem.

Does that make sense?

]]> By: Zeev http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-12206 Zeev Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:59:50 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-12206 I don't think those images are very sexual at all. The last one shows a bit of cleavage but I don't think that's necessarily a sexual thing. In fact I think it's a massive improvement from NWN 1 and far better than many other games. Remember NWN? Load up the main screen and have a look at the random woman wearing a chainmail bikini. It has nipple points in it. You know, so that the 13 year old fanboys don't have to think too much about what her boobs look like. I don’t think those images are very sexual at all. The last one shows a bit of cleavage but I don’t think that’s necessarily a sexual thing. In fact I think it’s a massive improvement from NWN 1 and far better than many other games. Remember NWN? Load up the main screen and have a look at the random woman wearing a chainmail bikini. It has nipple points in it. You know, so that the 13 year old fanboys don’t have to think too much about what her boobs look like.

]]> By: vinz http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3717 vinz Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:18:58 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3717 There's a few, GL, but since this is about role-playing games I don't think they count, since they're not coded by the same clueless goobers. Two examples here: Soul Calibur's Yunsung http://www.hongyunsung.com/images/version5index2_19.jpg and Dynasty Warrior's Zhang He http://www2.hawaii.edu/~tkiyono/Web%20Page/ZhangHe.jpg (who dresses more sensibly in the following games.) I don't know of any non-Square RPGs with barely-clothed males though. There’s a few, GL, but since this is about role-playing games I don’t think they count, since they’re not coded by the same clueless goobers.

Two examples here:
Soul Calibur’s Yunsung
http://www.hongyunsung.com/images/version5index2_19.jpg
and
Dynasty Warrior’s Zhang He
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~tkiyono/Web%20Page/ZhangHe.jpg
(who dresses more sensibly in the following games.)
I don’t know of any non-Square RPGs with barely-clothed males though.

]]> By: Official Shrub.com Blog » Blog Archive » Sexualizing Powerful Poses http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3130 Official Shrub.com Blog » Blog Archive » Sexualizing Powerful Poses Thu, 12 Oct 2006 07:44:56 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3130 [...] In my post Female Villains Can’t Win, one of the things I mentioned was that even in their powerful poses, women were sexualized. Peatbogfaery asked if I had any other examples than what I provided. Initially I was just going to reply on the thread, but it’s taken on a life of its own (when does it not?), so here it is. [...] [...] In my post Female Villains Can’t Win, one of the things I mentioned was that even in their powerful poses, women were sexualized. Peatbogfaery asked if I had any other examples than what I provided. Initially I was just going to reply on the thread, but it’s taken on a life of its own (when does it not?), so here it is. [...]

]]> By: tekanji http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3052 tekanji Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:41:25 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3052 <b>peatbogfaery:</b> Good question! I made it its own post <a href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-11_423" rel="nofollow">here</a>. peatbogfaery: Good question! I made it its own post here.

]]> By: peatbogfaery http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3045 peatbogfaery Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:48:43 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3045 Great post - can you think of any 'power' posture for females that couldn't be described as sexual? I tried, but couldn't come up with anything :( Great post - can you think of any ‘power’ posture for females that couldn’t be described as sexual? I tried, but couldn’t come up with anything :(

]]> By: heresy http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3031 heresy Wed, 11 Oct 2006 01:08:52 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-3031 I have heard of a character you can unlock in Dead or Alive 4, and she is a female. Unlike the other women in the game, she actually has body armor to protect herself in combat. The unlockable character is a Spartan 458 modeled after Master Chief of Halo 2. Of course, it still does not take away from the overall message of gender roles in both the hero and villian roles of video games. There should be more feminist video games as well as feminist comic books. That would be awesome! I have heard of a character you can unlock in Dead or Alive 4, and she is a female. Unlike the other women in the game, she actually has body armor to protect herself in combat. The unlockable character is a Spartan 458 modeled after Master Chief of Halo 2. Of course, it still does not take away from the overall message of gender roles in both the hero and villian roles of video games. There should be more feminist video games as well as feminist comic books. That would be awesome!

]]> By: little cabbage http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-2947 little cabbage Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:35:00 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-2947 This is a really good post. For a notable exception, though, look at Princess Theradras of World of Warcraft. I suppose in her case, though, her radical ugliness is sort of the mirror image of other female villains' beauty: instead of being beautiful and therefore wicked, she's ugly and therefore wicked. Hmmm... This is a really good post.

For a notable exception, though, look at Princess Theradras of World of Warcraft. I suppose in her case, though, her radical ugliness is sort of the mirror image of other female villains’ beauty: instead of being beautiful and therefore wicked, she’s ugly and therefore wicked.

Hmmm…

]]> By: Rhiannon http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-2944 Rhiannon Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:27:25 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-2944 Yup. Female villians are definately screwed in the armor area. Female Heros are typically pretty screwed there too... who in the gaming world really thinks that armor does a bit of good when it leaves you stomach exposed like that? Yup. Female villians are definately screwed in the armor area. Female Heros are typically pretty screwed there too… who in the gaming world really thinks that armor does a bit of good when it leaves you stomach exposed like that?

]]> By: tikae http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-2941 tikae Mon, 09 Oct 2006 19:51:08 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-04_410#comment-2941 I had hoped that the blue chick was an undead female warrior who was killed because she went into battle in such a skimpy outfit, but no. I don't think that Torio is mannish on purpose. I think it's just bad art. Behold Mira, from Obsidian's other game: http://www.gamebanshee.com/starwarskotorii/npcs/images/mira.jpg http://kauler.com/games/kotor/K2%20-%20023%20-%20Mira%20jedi.jpg Although Mira does have the odd and likely unique quality where her exposed breasts are no larger than a B-cup and actually look natural, her face still looks "off" and not just because it's somewhat masculine. All that makes me think is that the artists spent more time on the chests of the characters than they did on their faces. I had hoped that the blue chick was an undead female warrior who was killed because she went into battle in such a skimpy outfit, but no.

I don’t think that Torio is mannish on purpose. I think it’s just bad art. Behold Mira, from Obsidian’s other game:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/starwarskotorii/npcs/images/mira.jpg
http://kauler.com/games/kotor/K2%20-%20023%20-%20Mira%20jedi.jpg

Although Mira does have the odd and likely unique quality where her exposed breasts are no larger than a B-cup and actually look natural, her face still looks “off” and not just because it’s somewhat masculine. All that makes me think is that the artists spent more time on the chests of the characters than they did on their faces.

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