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	<title>Comments on: Using Privilege to Make the Oppressed Look Like the Oppressors</title>
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	<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348</link>
	<description>Because we care about stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Voicing Silence/ Silencing Voice: On technology, racism, pornography, and good, old-fashioned feminist internecine warfare. (Urban survival narrative special.) at Southern Discomfort</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-8546</link>
		<dc:creator>Voicing Silence/ Silencing Voice: On technology, racism, pornography, and good, old-fashioned feminist internecine warfare. (Urban survival narrative special.) at Southern Discomfort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 04:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-8546</guid>
		<description>[...] Update: tekanji @ Alas Shrub.com* has a far more articulate and comprehensive response to the feministing interview of Nubian referenced below; see Using Privilege to Make the Oppressed Look Like the Oppressors. - VM [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Update: tekanji @ Alas Shrub.com* has a far more articulate and comprehensive response to the feministing interview of Nubian referenced below; see Using Privilege to Make the Oppressed Look Like the Oppressors. &#8211; VM [...]</p>
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		<title>By: reappropriate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cerebrogenesis (6)</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-3245</link>
		<dc:creator>reappropriate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cerebrogenesis (6)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-3245</guid>
		<description>[...] Using Privilege to Make the Oppressed Look Like the Oppressor by tekanji. I&#8217;ve been really linking her stuff, but that&#8217;s only because she&#8217;s been churning out some great material on the whole debate regarding race/racism in the feminist community and surrounding nubian. Since I haven&#8217;t been following the debate (and I&#8217;m not inclined to get involved in &#8220;she said&#8221; stuff here), I haven&#8217;t had much to say, but it&#8217;s nice to read other, good commentaries. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Using Privilege to Make the Oppressed Look Like the Oppressor by tekanji. I&#8217;ve been really linking her stuff, but that&#8217;s only because she&#8217;s been churning out some great material on the whole debate regarding race/racism in the feminist community and surrounding nubian. Since I haven&#8217;t been following the debate (and I&#8217;m not inclined to get involved in &#8220;she said&#8221; stuff here), I haven&#8217;t had much to say, but it&#8217;s nice to read other, good commentaries. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mixed Media Watch - tracking media representations of mixed people</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1772</link>
		<dc:creator>Mixed Media Watch - tracking media representations of mixed people</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1772</guid>
		<description>[...] Using Privilege to Make the Oppressed Look Like the Oppressors - Official Shrub.com Blog &#8220;&#8230;I just see the smooth 180 and it boggles my mind. Does no one besides the women being attacked see the ridiculousness of privileged people crying, â€œhelp, help, Iâ€™m being oppressed!â€™? Does no one see how itâ€™s used to derail the thread from prod (tags: white whiteprivilege oppression) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Using Privilege to Make the Oppressed Look Like the Oppressors &#8211; Official Shrub.com Blog &#8220;&#8230;I just see the smooth 180 and it boggles my mind. Does no one besides the women being attacked see the ridiculousness of privileged people crying, â€œhelp, help, Iâ€™m being oppressed!â€™? Does no one see how itâ€™s used to derail the thread from prod (tags: white whiteprivilege oppression) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1756</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1756</guid>
		<description>If there&#039;s anything I&#039;ve learned in my short life as a black man, it&#039;s that all whites, no matter how liberal or feminist or whatever, have this underlying arrogance that they&#039;re somehow better than non whites. so all this that happened to Nuubian, while unfortunate, does not surprise me at all. That&#039;s the reality of the world we live in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there&#8217;s anything I&#8217;ve learned in my short life as a black man, it&#8217;s that all whites, no matter how liberal or feminist or whatever, have this underlying arrogance that they&#8217;re somehow better than non whites. so all this that happened to Nuubian, while unfortunate, does not surprise me at all. That&#8217;s the reality of the world we live in.</p>
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		<title>By: Rycuda</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1755</link>
		<dc:creator>Rycuda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1755</guid>
		<description>In response to point II above, is there a polite way to thank someone for writing informative material? 

I ask simply because I find myself in the position where I feel as if I have learnt a lot from reading this, and other, feminist blogs over the past few weeks. I feel grateful for having been taught and wish to express that without causing offence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to point II above, is there a polite way to thank someone for writing informative material? </p>
<p>I ask simply because I find myself in the position where I feel as if I have learnt a lot from reading this, and other, feminist blogs over the past few weeks. I feel grateful for having been taught and wish to express that without causing offence.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1754</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1754</guid>
		<description>Jenn - 

I know this isn&#039;t your blog, and comments should be focused on tekanji&#039;s excellent post, but I want to just mentioned a few things about the whole controversy that occured on your blog.  First, the whole race traitor thing by some people was totally uncalled for.  You are obviously not a &quot;race traitor&quot; whatever that is, and you never will be.  Second, I think most of the &quot;people&quot;, and I use that term loosely, that were so angered are Asian/Asian-American males.  As an Asian-American transracial adoptee, I can understand their angry somewhat, but they took it too far.  I believe these men felt that white culture perpetuates the stereotype of the oppressive, chauvinistic, sexist Asian man enough, that it hurt for an Asian-Canadian woman to address the topic as well.  That&#039;s where the feeling of betrayal came from, as misguided as it might be.

Sorry for the thread hijack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenn &#8211; </p>
<p>I know this isn&#8217;t your blog, and comments should be focused on tekanji&#8217;s excellent post, but I want to just mentioned a few things about the whole controversy that occured on your blog.  First, the whole race traitor thing by some people was totally uncalled for.  You are obviously not a &#8220;race traitor&#8221; whatever that is, and you never will be.  Second, I think most of the &#8220;people&#8221;, and I use that term loosely, that were so angered are Asian/Asian-American males.  As an Asian-American transracial adoptee, I can understand their angry somewhat, but they took it too far.  I believe these men felt that white culture perpetuates the stereotype of the oppressive, chauvinistic, sexist Asian man enough, that it hurt for an Asian-Canadian woman to address the topic as well.  That&#8217;s where the feeling of betrayal came from, as misguided as it might be.</p>
<p>Sorry for the thread hijack.</p>
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		<title>By: KC</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1747</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 02:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1747</guid>
		<description>Great post! 
In a comment to a &lt;a href=&quot;http://thefreeslave.blogspot.com/2006/07/blogging-while-wack.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post by MaxJulian on this subject,&lt;/a&gt; Prof. Zero captured the problem with white people congratulating black bloggers for teaching us: &quot;I think the biggest problem is expecting to be taught, and assuming the site was for this. Disagreeing, or having a question, is all right if it&#039;s sincere. But the assumption of centrality, the idea that people should be happy to drop everything right now and teach from Point 1, is presumptuous.&quot; MaxJulian restated this point as: &quot;I think what you&#039;re saying in nigga terms is: &quot;I don&#039;t mind teaching, just don&#039;t sit back in your recliner eating popcorn while I do your heavy lifting for you. Fuck that! We&#039;re all gonna have to tote that barge and lift that bale.&quot; That&#039;s how I feel and I can relate to any person of color fed up with doing the heavy lifting for &quot;ungrateful, entitled&quot; white folks who EXPECT us to pick their anti-racist cotton and sew the shit up TOO! Infuriating!!&quot; Now I get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!<br />
In a comment to a <a href="http://thefreeslave.blogspot.com/2006/07/blogging-while-wack.html" rel="nofollow">post by MaxJulian on this subject,</a> Prof. Zero captured the problem with white people congratulating black bloggers for teaching us: &#8220;I think the biggest problem is expecting to be taught, and assuming the site was for this. Disagreeing, or having a question, is all right if it&#8217;s sincere. But the assumption of centrality, the idea that people should be happy to drop everything right now and teach from Point 1, is presumptuous.&#8221; MaxJulian restated this point as: &#8220;I think what you&#8217;re saying in nigga terms is: &#8220;I don&#8217;t mind teaching, just don&#8217;t sit back in your recliner eating popcorn while I do your heavy lifting for you. Fuck that! We&#8217;re all gonna have to tote that barge and lift that bale.&#8221; That&#8217;s how I feel and I can relate to any person of color fed up with doing the heavy lifting for &#8220;ungrateful, entitled&#8221; white folks who EXPECT us to pick their anti-racist cotton and sew the shit up TOO! Infuriating!!&#8221; Now I get it.</p>
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		<title>By: tekanji</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1746</link>
		<dc:creator>tekanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1746</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The idea seems to be for some that they can either be ONLY oppressed or oppressor, and never both.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, I&#039;ve come across that attitude, too. In my experience, those people also are the ones who say things like, &quot;bringing up the concept of &#039;privilege&#039; is a surefire way to end a conversation.&quot; Only, you know, if they were arguing from a privileged position -- without actual knowledge on the way privilege works -- then I&#039;d argue that the conversation was shut down from the start.

Personally, I think intersectionality is one of the main thing that oppression movements need to realize. There can be a lot gained from having tunnel vision and focusing on the movement&#039;s main issue, but then you gotta ask -- &lt;i&gt;whose&lt;/i&gt; version of it are we focusing on? 

From what I know of the Asian American community (upheld in what I saw happen to your posts on the matter), it seems that the &lt;i&gt;male&lt;/i&gt; AA experience is privileged above all. In the feminist sphere, it&#039;s the &lt;i&gt;white&lt;/i&gt; (and often upper to middle class) experience. I have to say that, in seeing what&#039;s happened to nubian over these past 6 months, I have been shocked to see the amount of racism still alive and well in the feminist community. Even now, I make these posts and I think to myself, &quot;Have you all learned &lt;i&gt;nothing&lt;/i&gt;???&quot; 

I don&#039;t know. Maybe change really does have to be slow, but these problems with woc have been around in the feminist movement basically since feminism began. You would have thought we&#039;d have made more headway with them by now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The idea seems to be for some that they can either be ONLY oppressed or oppressor, and never both.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;ve come across that attitude, too. In my experience, those people also are the ones who say things like, &#8220;bringing up the concept of &#8216;privilege&#8217; is a surefire way to end a conversation.&#8221; Only, you know, if they were arguing from a privileged position &#8212; without actual knowledge on the way privilege works &#8212; then I&#8217;d argue that the conversation was shut down from the start.</p>
<p>Personally, I think intersectionality is one of the main thing that oppression movements need to realize. There can be a lot gained from having tunnel vision and focusing on the movement&#8217;s main issue, but then you gotta ask &#8212; <i>whose</i> version of it are we focusing on? </p>
<p>From what I know of the Asian American community (upheld in what I saw happen to your posts on the matter), it seems that the <i>male</i> AA experience is privileged above all. In the feminist sphere, it&#8217;s the <i>white</i> (and often upper to middle class) experience. I have to say that, in seeing what&#8217;s happened to nubian over these past 6 months, I have been shocked to see the amount of racism still alive and well in the feminist community. Even now, I make these posts and I think to myself, &#8220;Have you all learned <i>nothing</i>???&#8221; </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know. Maybe change really does have to be slow, but these problems with woc have been around in the feminist movement basically since feminism began. You would have thought we&#8217;d have made more headway with them by now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1745</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1745</guid>
		<description>What an excellent post -- sometimes I wonder if people have a hard time considering themselves outsid eof an &quot;oppressed/oppressor&quot; paradigm in which one is either one or the other. In many cases, the hardest dialogue one can have is when one is talking about privlege within an oppressed community (e.g. my being called a race traitor for considering sexism in the Asian American community). The idea seems to be for some that they can either be ONLY oppressed or oppressor, and never both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an excellent post &#8212; sometimes I wonder if people have a hard time considering themselves outsid eof an &#8220;oppressed/oppressor&#8221; paradigm in which one is either one or the other. In many cases, the hardest dialogue one can have is when one is talking about privlege within an oppressed community (e.g. my being called a race traitor for considering sexism in the Asian American community). The idea seems to be for some that they can either be ONLY oppressed or oppressor, and never both.</p>
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		<title>By: Vibrating Liz</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348/comment-page-1#comment-1737</link>
		<dc:creator>Vibrating Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-07-25_348#comment-1737</guid>
		<description>Brava! Well said. THANK you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brava! Well said. THANK you.</p>
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