http://brokentoys.org/2007/10/27/there-may-be-some-subliminal-message-here/

Meh.

This and the post on chivalry has definitely made this site a must read for me!

Re: equal objectification:

While I’d be the last to complain about more beefcake, I think tekanji is right about it not being possible for objectification to be really equal at this point - even if the numbers are the same. Not just because game harrassment has secondary meanings for women due to experiences with real harrassment - as tekanji says, but also because of how people in general - I think men in particular - view sexuality.

On more than one occasion I’ve been told, essentially, that women’s sexual desire is defined by what men want - and men’s sexual desire is also defined by what men want. So long as this underlies all conversations about sexuality, men being shown as sex objects will be doubly threatening to (straight) men. Not only do sexy men suggest that female sexuality is defined by what women want as well - thus upsetting the balance of power - but I think most guys will completely skip that part of the threat to the patriarchy and see sexually desirable men as being threats to their heterosexuality simply because they can’t conceive of male sexuality being defined by what women want as well. So, I’m skeptical of more beefcake in games necessarily coming across as simply the tables being turned.

So, while a greater number of sexy men in games will help, I think that it needs to be done in a particular way and it won’t do much without a greater variety of female characters as well.

There’s got to be some sort of middle ground, where characters can be sexual without the insidiousness. Slavery to the Madonna/Whore extremes needs to stop.

Word.

Unfortunately, we’ll continue to be enslaved to that dichotomy until we all sit back and truly recognize femaleness (and traditional femininity) as of equal value to that of maleness and masculinity. And that, I fear, is a battle far from being won.

That’s why I, as a female who has to put up with street harassment on a daily basis, gets so angry over the way my female avatars on MMOs are treated while a man using a female avatar would likely see that same attention as indicative of him having power over the other males. Does that makes sense?

You point of view makes perfect sense to me, I’d probably be infuriated too. But it’s wierd to find that male gamers feel that way. But I’m used to a different mindset. To me, most male comic book readers seem threatened by an excess of male sexuality, and seem to feel like a character is emasculated when used in situations that you traditionally see a female character in. There’s got to be some sort of middle ground, where characters can be sexual without the insidiousness. Slavery to the Madonna/Whore extremes needs to stop.

I’m working on the Fahrenheit one now, but it’s a long one. There’s a lot to say, and I want to try to make sure I say it right x.x Hope I don’t dissappoint when it’s finally done, heh.

I’m also not sure if “equal” objectification is really the answer. On the surface, it makes the most sense: objectifying men equally must be an expression of equality, right? But when you throw privilege into the mix, it tips the balance. Because they come from a position of power, men don’t experience the systems of oppression quite like women do.

That’s why I, as a female who has to put up with street harassment on a daily basis, gets so angry over the way my female avatars on MMOs are treated while a man using a female avatar would likely see that same attention as indicative of him having power over the other males. Does that makes sense?