Comments on: On Chivalry http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101 Because we care about stuff Fri, 16 May 2008 18:46:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Official Shrub.com Blog » Blog Archive » Think women have achieved equality? Think again. http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-169939 Official Shrub.com Blog » Blog Archive » Think women have achieved equality? Think again. Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:48:01 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-169939 [...] people get angry when a woman questions the intentions behind a “chivalrous” act from a [...] […] people get angry when a woman questions the intentions behind a “chivalrous” act from a […]

]]> By: Rabboleth http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-40948 Rabboleth Tue, 06 Mar 2007 17:31:26 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-40948 Ouch... mea culpa on the whole chivalry thing. In large part, I guess, it's just what a 'gentleman' is expected to do, and NOT doing it made me feel like a churl. Woah. <i>Churl.</i> What a snooty word! Classism and sexism, all rolled into one neat --and hard to get rid of-- package. Hard, because the guilt will probably still be there. Anywho, I have noticed a difference in reaction among genders and age groups to chivalry. Generally, most of the people who reacted favorably were of a previous generation. Felt odd to be called 'sir' by a man old enough to be my father, but that is what gentlemen call each other, even when dishing out insults. The ones who reacted as if they weren't sure how to take it were usually younger than me, and for the most part, male. Thinking back on it, I guess that does sort of put the whole thing in its place: a good idea, horribly contaminated by stale traditions. If chivalry cannot be decontaminated, then it needs to be canned like toxic waste and buried as deeply as possible. Ouch… mea culpa on the whole chivalry thing. In large part, I guess, it’s just what a ‘gentleman’ is expected to do, and NOT doing it made me feel like a churl.
Woah. Churl. What a snooty word! Classism and sexism, all rolled into one neat –and hard to get rid of– package. Hard, because the guilt will probably still be there.
Anywho, I have noticed a difference in reaction among genders and age groups to chivalry. Generally, most of the people who reacted favorably were of a previous generation. Felt odd to be called ’sir’ by a man old enough to be my father, but that is what gentlemen call each other, even when dishing out insults. The ones who reacted as if they weren’t sure how to take it were usually younger than me, and for the most part, male.
Thinking back on it, I guess that does sort of put the whole thing in its place: a good idea, horribly contaminated by stale traditions. If chivalry cannot be decontaminated, then it needs to be canned like toxic waste and buried as deeply as possible.

]]> By: tekanji http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-12825 tekanji Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:29:52 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-12825 <b>Katie:</b> I've debunked the myth of gender essentialism on this blog more times than I can count. I get sick of reiterating the same thing over and over again. Although I think that, when I have time, I'll add a category specifically for it so people can have easy-access. In the meantime, I direct you to <a href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-09-22_51" rel="nofollow">The Gender Similarities Hypothesis</a>. Katie: I’ve debunked the myth of gender essentialism on this blog more times than I can count. I get sick of reiterating the same thing over and over again. Although I think that, when I have time, I’ll add a category specifically for it so people can have easy-access. In the meantime, I direct you to The Gender Similarities Hypothesis.

]]> By: Katie http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-12810 Katie Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:27:06 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-12810 Andrea, I wish you had left a response to Lancelot's multiple assertions that women and men are essentially different! (I mean, at the very least, a questioning of how on earth we can fall into similar-within-the-sexes categories when we're all so different from each other, period, might be a good start.) I don't think he made the argument you said he made. He didn't do the "Feminists hate door-openers!" argument. He did the one that's MUCH more prevalent out in debates we get into with our friends and in the not-usually-gender-discussing community: that members of the two genders/sexes are, by nature, "just different." Andrea, I wish you had left a response to Lancelot’s multiple assertions that women and men are essentially different! (I mean, at the very least, a questioning of how on earth we can fall into similar-within-the-sexes categories when we’re all so different from each other, period, might be a good start.)

I don’t think he made the argument you said he made. He didn’t do the “Feminists hate door-openers!” argument. He did the one that’s MUCH more prevalent out in debates we get into with our friends and in the not-usually-gender-discussing community: that members of the two genders/sexes are, by nature, “just different.”

]]> By: TheFool http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-983 TheFool Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:07:09 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-983 Chivalry was originally a warrior code founded in Christianity to reduce the brutality of war on non-combatants (mind you, it often was ignored in practice) - defence of one's prisoners unto death, remaining faithful to oaths, etc., etc. What you are angered by was grafted on in the twelfth century - it is known as the precepts of courtly love, and is based upon French ballads of that time. And a side note: be they man or woman, if someone else is behind me, in front of me, or anywhere within ten feet of me and moving for a door I am nearer to, I hold that door open for them out of habit - it's the way I was raised. I try (and most often fail,) to put everyone else's interests ahead of my own - to only hold the door for women would be contrary to this. Go ahead and tell me I'm a fool - I already know that, but I try to live by a code that seems purer in this modern day. If you feel offended, I am truly sorry, for that is not my intention - but I think there still are people who can take something like this at face value without ascribing a thousand nefarious purposes to it. Chivalry was originally a warrior code founded in Christianity to reduce the brutality of war on non-combatants (mind you, it often was ignored in practice) - defence of one’s prisoners unto death, remaining faithful to oaths, etc., etc. What you are angered by was grafted on in the twelfth century - it is known as the precepts of courtly love, and is based upon French ballads of that time. And a side note: be they man or woman, if someone else is behind me, in front of me, or anywhere within ten feet of me and moving for a door I am nearer to, I hold that door open for them out of habit - it’s the way I was raised. I try (and most often fail,) to put everyone else’s interests ahead of my own - to only hold the door for women would be contrary to this.

Go ahead and tell me I’m a fool - I already know that, but I try to live by a code that seems purer in this modern day. If you feel offended, I am truly sorry, for that is not my intention - but I think there still are people who can take something like this at face value without ascribing a thousand nefarious purposes to it.

]]> By: tekanji http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-811 tekanji Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:09:22 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-811 Lancelot, either read my posts before you comment or don't comment at all. I'm really fucking tired of educating people too lazy to read even to the end of my introduction. <b>And, people at large, please stop using the "omg femanests haet teh door opaning!" stereotype.</b> It's old, it's tired, and I'm going to start banning people who do because that's not really what I'm talking about and it's getting to the point of derailing the thread. Lancelot, either read my posts before you comment or don’t comment at all. I’m really fucking tired of educating people too lazy to read even to the end of my introduction.

And, people at large, please stop using the “omg femanests haet teh door opaning!” stereotype. It’s old, it’s tired, and I’m going to start banning people who do because that’s not really what I’m talking about and it’s getting to the point of derailing the thread.

]]> By: Lancelot http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-810 Lancelot Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:42:08 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-810 As strange as this idea seems to be, maybe some men hold the door and do other such things because they actualy appreciate women. They do this because men and women are intrinsically different, and because they respect these differences. This isnt saying they think women are not equal in most arenas, but it is also not denying the differences in the sexs(sp?). The way that i view and act on chivalry is to be polite to both men and women, but if both should need help at the same time, i would choose the woman. As strange as this idea seems to be, maybe some men hold the door and do other such things because they actualy appreciate women. They do this because men and women are intrinsically different, and because they respect these differences. This isnt saying they think women are not equal in most arenas, but it is also not denying the differences in the sexs(sp?). The way that i view and act on chivalry is to be polite to both men and women, but if both should need help at the same time, i would choose the woman.

]]> By: Official Shrub.com Blog » Blog Archive » How to be a Real Nice Guy http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-629 Official Shrub.com Blog » Blog Archive » How to be a Real Nice Guy Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:01:49 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-629 [...] Treat Us As Individuals What we want, how we react, our dreams, desires, lives, etc… Guess what? They’re just as diverse as yours. What minorities want is the right to all of the life choices that privileged groups have. In order for you, as a privileged person, to assure that, you need to not try to control our choices because of tradition, or your personal morals, or what have you. We have just as much of a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as you do - so instead of assuming something about us because of our gender/race/orientation/etc. try to get a sense of who we actually are. [...] […] Treat Us As Individuals What we want, how we react, our dreams, desires, lives, etc… Guess what? They’re just as diverse as yours. What minorities want is the right to all of the life choices that privileged groups have. In order for you, as a privileged person, to assure that, you need to not try to control our choices because of tradition, or your personal morals, or what have you. We have just as much of a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as you do - so instead of assuming something about us because of our gender/race/orientation/etc. try to get a sense of who we actually are. […]

]]> By: Miles to go… » On Chivalry http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-528 Miles to go… » On Chivalry Mon, 30 Jan 2006 03:49:27 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-528 [...] http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101 [...] […] http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101 […]

]]> By: vibhav http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2005-12-29_101#comment-486 vibhav Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:06:29 +0000 http://blog.shrub.com/?p=101#comment-486 can somebody clearly depict what meaning does da word chivalry carries ethically? can somebody clearly depict what meaning does da word chivalry carries ethically?

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