what do you think of the stereotype of the feminist with no sense of humour?

Do a google search for “daily Kos” and “humorless feminist” and read some of the links. That stereotype is just as harmful as the rest, and misued just as badly to degrade feminism and women in general.

I may not agree with spellings like “womyn” and whatnot, but I do understand their underlying point. Words have power.

I used to be one of the staunch defenders of using the word “gay” to mean bad, because my argument was that it was far enough divorced from the connotation of homosexual that it wasn’t hurtful towards gay people. I also argued that, because people in the GLBT community used it, it was further ok, and by extension it was ok for me to use it. I have since changed my position, mostly as a direct result of those same “humourless feminist” forums making me see how hypocritical my stance on language was, but also because of being called the “humouless feminist” when I spoke up against the true homosexual bashing (woman bashing, etc) that went on in my WoW guild. I witnessed first hand what it was like to have people of the majority group dehumanizing groups that I belonged to and then turning on me, personally, if I dared to speak up and say such hate speech made me uncomfortable.

The negative conntation to the term “politically correct” is also rooted in conservatism. I have no problem discussing the merits (or lackthereof) of using certain words, but to dismiss the arguments (and the women using them) as merely trying to be “politically correct” is offensive. It’s the same tactic used on us to try and shut us up any time we step outside the box that the men in power have tried to shut us in. Think reproductive freedoms are important enough to challenge the dems support of “Democrats for Life”? You’re just one of those PC, humourless, women’s studies types, aren’t you?

As per your example using the word lame, here are some other contexts that I hope will help you understand why I disagree with you:

1) “I find your use of the word ‘nigger’ to mean ‘disadvantaged’ insulting, even though I am not a person of colour,”

2) “I find your use of the word ’slut’ to mean ‘promiscuous’ insulting, even though I am not a sexually active woman,”

3) “I find your use of the word ‘gay’ to mean ’stupid’ insulting, even though I am not homosexual,”

I would be shocked if you were to argue that a white person can’t object to the use of “nigger”, or that a chaste person can’t object to the word “slut”, or that a patently heterosexual person can’t object to the use of “gay” in the sense I described in my anecdote. It is the same principle for the use of “lame”. I have seen all sorts of people argue against its usage, including a fair number of those who identify as “differently-able”. I cannot stand here and rail against sexism while knowingly perpetuating other forms of oppression. No feminist should, either.

I guess what I’m saying is that you don’t have to understand, or agree with, everything these people say. I, certainly, don’t agree with the feminists who believe that all (female) homemakers are brainwashed zombies. I have run into some of them who, in other areas, are quite sane. But that does not mean that I’m going to use the stereotype that they fit to defend against women-haters, or even sit by and be silent while other people use the stereotype.

I don’t know if you were walking close enough to hear our conversation, but at the pride parade Cat (Kat?) made a disparaging comment about feminists, then when I challenged her she clarified that it was the type (she had personally enountered) described above. While I agreed with her that the mindset she described was wrong, I also stressed that it was an anti-feminist value while explaining that it is possible for feminists to hold such values despite our striving for the ideal. She may or may not have been affected by what I said, but at least I didn’t sit on my ass and let the movement be harmfully stereotyped by someone who should be an ally of ours.

There is no gain in using divisive language on our own people. However, the harm it can do to our cause (eradicating oppresion) is clear: if we continue to attack ourselves, and let our moral allies attack us, then all the progress we’ve made in North America in the past years will continue it’s steady descent down the toilet. I don’t want that, do you?

Query: what do you think of the stereotype of the feminist with no sense of humour? The lightbulb joke goes: “How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb? One. And that’s not funny.” I used to think that was a gross overgeneralization, but when I see people in feminist forums seriously using words like “womyn” and “herstory,” or who say “I find your use of the word ‘lame’ to mean ‘pathetic’ insulting, even though I am not diffferently-able,” it makes my brain twist. When did feminism become about ignoring practicalities in favour of political correctness?

I in no way meant to degrade the cause of feminism - I do consider myself a feminist, just not in the way that it had been portrayed in the horrible trolling comments that were made about me.

I understand you wanting to react to the trolling comments made about you; the ones you left there were upsetting (to put it mildly) enough, so I can only imagine how terrible the ones you chose to delete were. There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour.

However, my critique of your language still stands.

And don’t think that I’m sitting here judging you from my high horse; I have been guilty of the same language as I’m criticizing you for. I know what it’s like to be the feminist being torn apart simply because she cares about women’s rights and chooses to speak up for them when the situation warrants. I’ve been in the position where I have cried out, in essence, “Stop attacking me, I’m not one of those feminists!” I have even used the word “feminazi” to distinguish myself from the same kind of “raging feminist” stereotype that you employed.

But it is just that – a stereotype. While feminists who embrace anti-feminist ideals do exist (and, indeed, I would argue that the very human factor makes it so that none of us are immune from anti-feminist positions), it is misleading and harmful to the movement to continue to invoke the “raging feminist”/”feminazi” stereotype to defend against attacks from misogynists.

Would you feel it to be ok for a heterosexual feminist to post on her blog something to the effect of: “I am not a dyke. I do not scream about vaginas at the top of my lungs without pause, as some people seem to believe.”? I know that I, personally, would find that very offensive to my feminist sensibilities. I don’t like being lumped into the “hairy legged, man-hating lesbian” category for being a feminist, but that’s not an excuse for 1) implying that there’s something wrong with having hairy legs, being a lesbian, or being vocal and unapologetic about a preoccupation with women’s issues, and 2) continuing to perpetuate a harmful stereotype (”man-hater”/”feminazi”/”raging feminist”/etc) as fact.

Again, I’m sorry that my post hurt you; that wasn’t my intention at all. I’m definitely feeling pissy about my surgery being postponed, which I’m sure informed my tone and made me more harsh than I should have been. I hope that, despite my tone, you’ll think about the point I was trying to make about attacking feminism being a problem rather than a solution. I’m more than happy to discuss the issue further as well (this goes for any posters, not just Saralah).

I found your post about my blog, and I am hurt that you took my comment about being a “raging feminist” this way. I in no way meant to degrade the cause of feminism - I do consider myself a feminist, just not in the way that it had been portrayed in the horrible trolling comments that were made about me.

What I was trying to get across is that some people think that because I talk about feminist issues occasionally, that is all I ever think about. They think that I believe I deserve equality just because I am a woman, never thinking that I could want it because I feel that I have earned it as a person. The “raging feminist” is not all feminists - it is the worst kind of stereotype.

I apologize for any misunderstanding, and hope you will continue to visit my blog.

Thanks,
Saralah

It kind of feels like a slap in the face, not only for me who cares but for everything feminism has done for women.

That’s a very good point. It’s like, “You may have gotten us the vote, the ability to use BC both in and out of relationships, helped to stop women from dying from back alley abortions, and allowed us to work outside the home, but that doesn’t matter because people like Rush Limbaugh say you’re evil and therefore it must be so.” And this sentiment from women who don’t even like our dear, crazy, woman-hating Rush (I use him as the example because he’s the one who coined “feminazi”, a word used by men and women alike to decry any woman who dares speak out for her rights).

It is an outrage, I think, for women to benefit from all that feminism has accomplished and then turn around and bite the hand that has fed them. Don’t like feminism, fine, but either shut the hell up or stop taking advantage of the gains that the movement has brought you. Otherwise you’re just a lesser extreme of Ann Coulter; a hypocrite advocating the return to an age where women were seen as sub-human whose ability to advocate such hate speech was secured by the very women she demonizes.

When this happens i always want to bring out the definition of a feminist and say to them so you don’t belive in equal rights for women?

Has it worked for you? ‘Cause so far, every time I come across a woman who vocally supports women’s rights but “hates feminism”, all I get in response to that kind of reasoning is repetition of the myths that supposedly demonstrate how feminists are really man-haters. Last time I checked, the only feminists I know who hate men are the ones who acknowledge their fear/hatred isn’t healthy or a feminist value. I can’t say the same for the anti-feminist men who hate women, but we never hear about them, do we?

Its makes me sad. We have a very long and difficult battle if women can’t even recognise that equal rights is important for them.

I hear you. How will we ever stop being seen as male (normal) vs. female (lesser) and start being seen as people if the people who, by all rights, should be on our side are hell bent on helping their (and our) enemies destroy us? Nothing is gained when women’s rights advocates turn on feminism, but so very much is lost.

PS. Tell Mr. T happy birthday for me. I was thinking about leaving a comment on your post, but it seems kind of odd to be well-wishing when I’m a total stranger. ^^;

I have heard so many women (a few friends of mine too) say quite loudly and quite passionately ‘i’m not a feminist’ in defence.

It kind of feels like a slap in the face, not only for me who cares but for everything feminism has done for women.

I guess the worst part is that feminism is seen as such a dirty word, an extremist almost.

When this happens i always want to bring out the definition of a feminist and say to them so you don’t belive in equal rights for women?

What’s even sadder is that you actually have some women who simply don’t care about equal rights (i had one on my blog recently), or at least say they don’t.

Its makes me sad. We have a very long and difficult battle if women can’t even recognise that equal rights is important for them.

Btw, I deleted someone else on my links for the same reason.

I don’t know where to go from here. Although I can’t help but think what we reallyneed is more education and just some good public relations :-).