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	<title>Comments on: For male gamers and readers, something embarrassing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673</link>
	<description>Because we care about stuff</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 08:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: philly jay</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-149589</link>
		<dc:creator>philly jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-149589</guid>
		<description>I've heard a lot about assassins creed, but next to nothing about this lady until I found the comic in question.How? while reading the webcomic artist deivant art page.The comic itself was in bad taste.And I honestly fail to see how ubisoft was using her sex appeal to sell the game.I guess I just don't see why some mostly male game fans are making such a big deal about her and her looks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard a lot about assassins creed, but next to nothing about this lady until I found the comic in question.How? while reading the webcomic artist deivant art page.The comic itself was in bad taste.And I honestly fail to see how ubisoft was using her sex appeal to sell the game.I guess I just don&#8217;t see why some mostly male game fans are making such a big deal about her and her looks.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Karp</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148471</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Karp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148471</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;tekanji:&lt;/b&gt; You're right in that a lot of SA's material is mean-spirited - I tend to dig the more absurd stuff, but none of that excuses any of the meaner fare, and certainly not the behavior of the forum members.

I'm glad you're not deterred by this situation or any of the many others that you've doubtless encountered.  Go forth and develop!  Hopefully I'll do the same.

As an aside, I have no idea how I found my way to the Shrub blog, but I'm quite glad that I did.  Keep up the great work (same to you, Luke).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>tekanji:</b> You&#8217;re right in that a lot of SA&#8217;s material is mean-spirited - I tend to dig the more absurd stuff, but none of that excuses any of the meaner fare, and certainly not the behavior of the forum members.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re not deterred by this situation or any of the many others that you&#8217;ve doubtless encountered.  Go forth and develop!  Hopefully I&#8217;ll do the same.</p>
<p>As an aside, I have no idea how I found my way to the Shrub blog, but I&#8217;m quite glad that I did.  Keep up the great work (same to you, Luke).</p>
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		<title>By: tekanji</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148234</link>
		<dc:creator>tekanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148234</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Ben:&lt;/b&gt; I've been giving a lot of thought to the best way to address your comment (and hoping that Luke would answer it, since it's his post). Unfortunately, a truly effective answer would require time and research which is something I can't do at the moment.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think this is just another pathetic case of a sexist marketing tactic where the people involved have no shame against it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You're making a lot of assumptions here that aren't supported by the facts.

1) The controversy was caused by people not in the industry (most notably Dave Cheung, who drew the comic, and Richard Kyanka, whose forums the comic was primarily distributed in and who made a stink about the C&#038;D), therefore it's incorrect to call it a "marketing tactic". Cyber bulling and cyber rape are more correct terms for what happened.

2) By sending a C&#038;D Ubisoft was taking legal recourse to protect its employee. If they, as you say, "have no shame against it" they wouldn't have bothered to pursue it legally, but probably have done something like turn it into a joke or otherwise put out some sort of press release to capitalize on the interest.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Most male’s probably dont have a problem with this (because of sexual instinct), but I would love to see their reaction if a scantily-clad male was on the cover.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What you're terming "sexual instinct" here is actually much more likely socially learned behaviour. While there is probably biological grounding for the use of sexual violence as a method of control, the attitude is more clearly connected to the attitudes fostered by society in regard to women.

The problem with calling it "sexual instinct" is that it erases personal responsibility in the matter, effectively saying, "I know it's sexist, but it's a natural reaction and therefore I shouldn't be subject to criticism from other people or myself." We, both as society and individuals, need to stop letting men off the hook for sexism and that starts with acknowledging the role we play in fostering sexist attitudes, including a lot of the discourse on what men and women are "naturally" like.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The reality of it is that this happens a LOT.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

I'm not entirely sure why this is relevant. Of course it happens a lot; it's a natural product of a sexist society and especially an industry that is still operating heavily withing the "boy's club" mentality. The disturbing frequency with which these incidents occur is &lt;i&gt;exactly&lt;/i&gt; the reason why discussion is necessary; until this kind of harassment is recognized as a problem by the gamer community/industry nothing substantial can be done to fix it.

&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s never really been admitted blatantly out in the open for a particular case like this, but behind closed doors, it’s always been a marketing factor for everything: “sex sells”.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I disagree with you about it not being admitted blatantly and out in the open; a very similar thing happened to Kathy Sierra, and I've heard the "sex sells" adage since I was in grade school. But, anyway, yeah, it's a problem that needs to be recognized and addressed. It &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; change (and I have hopes for the "casual" market being able to bring in some maturity to the overall culture, personally), but that change needs to start with gamers taking personal responsibility for their own participation in the sexist culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Ben:</b> I&#8217;ve been giving a lot of thought to the best way to address your comment (and hoping that Luke would answer it, since it&#8217;s his post). Unfortunately, a truly effective answer would require time and research which is something I can&#8217;t do at the moment.</p>
<blockquote><p>I think this is just another pathetic case of a sexist marketing tactic where the people involved have no shame against it.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;re making a lot of assumptions here that aren&#8217;t supported by the facts.</p>
<p>1) The controversy was caused by people not in the industry (most notably Dave Cheung, who drew the comic, and Richard Kyanka, whose forums the comic was primarily distributed in and who made a stink about the C&#038;D), therefore it&#8217;s incorrect to call it a &#8220;marketing tactic&#8221;. Cyber bulling and cyber rape are more correct terms for what happened.</p>
<p>2) By sending a C&#038;D Ubisoft was taking legal recourse to protect its employee. If they, as you say, &#8220;have no shame against it&#8221; they wouldn&#8217;t have bothered to pursue it legally, but probably have done something like turn it into a joke or otherwise put out some sort of press release to capitalize on the interest.</p>
<blockquote><p>Most male’s probably dont have a problem with this (because of sexual instinct), but I would love to see their reaction if a scantily-clad male was on the cover.</p></blockquote>
<p>What you&#8217;re terming &#8220;sexual instinct&#8221; here is actually much more likely socially learned behaviour. While there is probably biological grounding for the use of sexual violence as a method of control, the attitude is more clearly connected to the attitudes fostered by society in regard to women.</p>
<p>The problem with calling it &#8220;sexual instinct&#8221; is that it erases personal responsibility in the matter, effectively saying, &#8220;I know it&#8217;s sexist, but it&#8217;s a natural reaction and therefore I shouldn&#8217;t be subject to criticism from other people or myself.&#8221; We, both as society and individuals, need to stop letting men off the hook for sexism and that starts with acknowledging the role we play in fostering sexist attitudes, including a lot of the discourse on what men and women are &#8220;naturally&#8221; like.</p>
<blockquote><p>The reality of it is that this happens a LOT.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not entirely sure why this is relevant. Of course it happens a lot; it&#8217;s a natural product of a sexist society and especially an industry that is still operating heavily withing the &#8220;boy&#8217;s club&#8221; mentality. The disturbing frequency with which these incidents occur is <i>exactly</i> the reason why discussion is necessary; until this kind of harassment is recognized as a problem by the gamer community/industry nothing substantial can be done to fix it.</p>
<blockquote><p>It’s never really been admitted blatantly out in the open for a particular case like this, but behind closed doors, it’s always been a marketing factor for everything: “sex sells”.</p></blockquote>
<p>I disagree with you about it not being admitted blatantly and out in the open; a very similar thing happened to Kathy Sierra, and I&#8217;ve heard the &#8220;sex sells&#8221; adage since I was in grade school. But, anyway, yeah, it&#8217;s a problem that needs to be recognized and addressed. It <i>can</i> change (and I have hopes for the &#8220;casual&#8221; market being able to bring in some maturity to the overall culture, personally), but that change needs to start with gamers taking personal responsibility for their own participation in the sexist culture.</p>
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		<title>By: tekanji</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148214</link>
		<dc:creator>tekanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148214</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Aaron:&lt;/b&gt; While I don't hold the editorial content of SA in the same regard (while I think that the editors are talented writers, too much of their "humour" is rooted in mean-spirited "us versus them" rhetoric imho), I'm in complete agreement with the sentiments you've expressed here.

I'm also a gamer and aspiring game designer/producer and this sort of BS is one of the biggest fears I have going into the industry. If you haven't already, you can check out my thoughts here: &lt;a href="http://designblog.theirisnetwork.org/archives/9" rel="nofollow"&gt;Game designing while female&lt;/a&gt;. I'm a stubborn feminist who won't let a little (okay, a lot of) misogyny stand in the way of my dreams, but in that way I'm the exception, not the rule and it saddens me -- both as a gamer and as a feminist -- that in 2007 games, and gamer culture, appears to be &lt;i&gt;regressing&lt;/i&gt; instead of progressing. Hopefully our generation of producers, designers, etc. will be able to turn the tide, but I guess only time will tell, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Aaron:</b> While I don&#8217;t hold the editorial content of SA in the same regard (while I think that the editors are talented writers, too much of their &#8220;humour&#8221; is rooted in mean-spirited &#8220;us versus them&#8221; rhetoric imho), I&#8217;m in complete agreement with the sentiments you&#8217;ve expressed here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also a gamer and aspiring game designer/producer and this sort of BS is one of the biggest fears I have going into the industry. If you haven&#8217;t already, you can check out my thoughts here: <a href="http://designblog.theirisnetwork.org/archives/9" rel="nofollow">Game designing while female</a>. I&#8217;m a stubborn feminist who won&#8217;t let a little (okay, a lot of) misogyny stand in the way of my dreams, but in that way I&#8217;m the exception, not the rule and it saddens me &#8212; both as a gamer and as a feminist &#8212; that in 2007 games, and gamer culture, appears to be <i>regressing</i> instead of progressing. Hopefully our generation of producers, designers, etc. will be able to turn the tide, but I guess only time will tell, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Karp</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148163</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Karp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-148163</guid>
		<description>As a male gamer and a fan of SomethingAwful's editorial content (rather than the forums), this entire incident (or string of incidents) is doubly embarrassing and troubling to me.  Part of me seeks to defend Kyanka, or at least provide some excuse for his actions - the site has seen so many threats of legal action that they have an ingrained aggressive reaction to them.  Thing is, that's not really an excuse, since it absolves him of any guilt for seeing the image in question and failing to judge it as without any reasonable merit.  He fueled the fire, whether he was doing so out of misguided free speech fervor or not, and the quality of much of the site's "professionally" written content seems to come from people intelligent enough to know better.

As a gamer and aspiring game producer, the incident is both profoundly disappointing and worrisome.  The reasons it is disappointing are obvious on a personal level.  On industry level and for those of us who love it, it reveals that the advancements we've made are constantly threatened by retrograde ideas held by people who fit so nicely into the negative stereotype of "gamer."  We play increasingly complex and beautiful games that knowingly tweak our understandings of morality, causality, and our place in the world, but we're forever held back by the image of a basement-dwelling perpetual pre-adolescent afraid of social interaction.  Even worse is the chilling effect this could have.  I haven't played Assassin's Creed, but I've heard great things.  Clearly, Ms. Raymond is a talented producer, and I'm certain this experience has soured her at least somewhat on the industry and its fans.  There may be other women who have considered working on games who are now hesitant to do so.  Driving out and scaring off new voices can only make games myopic and tired over time, and I would hate to see that happen.

I don't know if Ms. Raymond reads this blog, or if she has any desire to dive back into what has to have been a profoundly bothersome experience, but in the hope that these words might somehow reach her eyes, I will say that I apologize on behalf of male gamers and hope that we can look forward to many more of your contributions in the future, despite how undeserving we seem determined to prove ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a male gamer and a fan of SomethingAwful&#8217;s editorial content (rather than the forums), this entire incident (or string of incidents) is doubly embarrassing and troubling to me.  Part of me seeks to defend Kyanka, or at least provide some excuse for his actions - the site has seen so many threats of legal action that they have an ingrained aggressive reaction to them.  Thing is, that&#8217;s not really an excuse, since it absolves him of any guilt for seeing the image in question and failing to judge it as without any reasonable merit.  He fueled the fire, whether he was doing so out of misguided free speech fervor or not, and the quality of much of the site&#8217;s &#8220;professionally&#8221; written content seems to come from people intelligent enough to know better.</p>
<p>As a gamer and aspiring game producer, the incident is both profoundly disappointing and worrisome.  The reasons it is disappointing are obvious on a personal level.  On industry level and for those of us who love it, it reveals that the advancements we&#8217;ve made are constantly threatened by retrograde ideas held by people who fit so nicely into the negative stereotype of &#8220;gamer.&#8221;  We play increasingly complex and beautiful games that knowingly tweak our understandings of morality, causality, and our place in the world, but we&#8217;re forever held back by the image of a basement-dwelling perpetual pre-adolescent afraid of social interaction.  Even worse is the chilling effect this could have.  I haven&#8217;t played Assassin&#8217;s Creed, but I&#8217;ve heard great things.  Clearly, Ms. Raymond is a talented producer, and I&#8217;m certain this experience has soured her at least somewhat on the industry and its fans.  There may be other women who have considered working on games who are now hesitant to do so.  Driving out and scaring off new voices can only make games myopic and tired over time, and I would hate to see that happen.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if Ms. Raymond reads this blog, or if she has any desire to dive back into what has to have been a profoundly bothersome experience, but in the hope that these words might somehow reach her eyes, I will say that I apologize on behalf of male gamers and hope that we can look forward to many more of your contributions in the future, despite how undeserving we seem determined to prove ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-147372</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-147372</guid>
		<description>I think this is just another pathetic case of a sexist marketing tactic where the people involved have no shame against it. The sad part about it is that it works, whether it's right or wrong. 

Most male's probably dont have a problem with this (because of sexual instinct), but I would love to see their reaction if a scantily-clad male was on the cover. 

The reality of it is that this happens a LOT. It's never really been admitted blatantly out in the open for a particular case like this, but behind closed doors, it's always been a marketing factor for everything: "sex sells".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is just another pathetic case of a sexist marketing tactic where the people involved have no shame against it. The sad part about it is that it works, whether it&#8217;s right or wrong. </p>
<p>Most male&#8217;s probably dont have a problem with this (because of sexual instinct), but I would love to see their reaction if a scantily-clad male was on the cover. </p>
<p>The reality of it is that this happens a LOT. It&#8217;s never really been admitted blatantly out in the open for a particular case like this, but behind closed doors, it&#8217;s always been a marketing factor for everything: &#8220;sex sells&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: you know me</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-144500</link>
		<dc:creator>you know me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 05:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-144500</guid>
		<description>EER, sorry. I am really a moron when it takes to code. Blockquote... got to remember that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EER, sorry. I am really a moron when it takes to code. Blockquote&#8230; got to remember that!</p>
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		<title>By: tekanji</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-144051</link>
		<dc:creator>tekanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-144051</guid>
		<description>Okay, can we try to minimize the discussion that's not directly related to the subject at hand? Or at least try to connect it more directly to the subject of the post?

Also, you know me, it's easier to read if you use blockquotes for your quoted text.

For example, if you type:
&#60;blockquote&#62;Quoted text.&#60;/blockquote&#62;

in the comment box, you will get:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Quoted text.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It makes it a lot easier to differentiate the text you're replying to and your actual reply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, can we try to minimize the discussion that&#8217;s not directly related to the subject at hand? Or at least try to connect it more directly to the subject of the post?</p>
<p>Also, you know me, it&#8217;s easier to read if you use blockquotes for your quoted text.</p>
<p>For example, if you type:<br />
&lt;blockquote&gt;Quoted text.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</p>
<p>in the comment box, you will get:</p>
<blockquote><p>Quoted text.</p></blockquote>
<p>It makes it a lot easier to differentiate the text you&#8217;re replying to and your actual reply.</p>
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		<title>By: the ANGRY pixel &#187; &#187; Aftermath: Jade Raymond - 7 Days Later</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-141171</link>
		<dc:creator>the ANGRY pixel &#187; &#187; Aftermath: Jade Raymond - 7 Days Later</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-141171</guid>
		<description>[...] of insightful articles, which I&#8217;ve been able to read because of the trackbacks, including Luke&#8217;s blog at Shrub, videogame design student Andrea&#8217;s blog and Roy&#8217;s blog at No Cookies For Me, all of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] of insightful articles, which I&#8217;ve been able to read because of the trackbacks, including Luke&#8217;s blog at Shrub, videogame design student Andrea&#8217;s blog and Roy&#8217;s blog at No Cookies For Me, all of [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: you know me</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-141163</link>
		<dc:creator>you know me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/luke/2007-11-18_673#comment-141163</guid>
		<description>&#62;You assert that gamers, as a group, haven’t developed much, but the gaming demographic has grown substantially in the &#62;past decade to include an unprecedented span of ages, demographics and both men and women. Are you suggesting that &#62;people in general have not advanced much?

I can see a lot of glitter, but a lot of dust under it as well. Sure there are some new things, but still there's something lacking. And I tell it with a broken voice. The whole game business doesn't convince me yet. There is something missing under what I define "art aspect". I don't want to start a discussion about what's art and what's not (it is impossible to find a real solution), but I think that, even though new generation games brought a lot of new inventions (mainly under the graphic aspect) they also brought something negative (what I call the "my graphic board is bigger than yours" syndrome for example). There is still too few in terms of subtext (or, you can still play some games without understanding that subtext). Game industry does what it is born for... selling. And to sell to as many peopole possible you have to create something "average". We haven't reached yet a "critical mass" point in which there will be market for really indipendent labels. However there aren't people so bold, or crazy (call em artists if you mind) to create innovative games just because they want to, or  there aren`t people willing to sponsor them (the so called art patrons). I know there is plenty of exceptions (I.e. Crayon Physics), but they are just exceptions. About people not evolving, they really don; do that since the times of Socrates.. I am actually beholding a genaral involution. But I am not talking about gamens here.

&#62;Second, you suggest that games themselves have not evolved much outside of graphics. Whether games have evolved &#62;has *nothing* to do with whether gamers tend to be sexist. Stamp and coin collecting have followed conventions for &#62;decades–do you suggest that coin collectors tend to be sexist?

Are we sure there? Are we sure that the obsessive pursual of "X poligons in motion per frame" has nothing to do with a manly approach to the "problem?".
 
&#62;Also, the idea that games have not evolved is simply wrong. There are dozens of games today in genres that did not (or &#62;barely) existed just a decade ago. MMOs and Rhythm games are just 2 examples. What other medium has evolved so &#62;quickly? Your attack on FPS’s makes no sense to me either. You see no real difference between Doom and Bioshock? &#62;Quake and Portal?

I am not talking about evolution speed. Sure it is advancing quiclky, but is not yet enough (in my humble opinion). About differences... well, no really. Last real breackthrough I saw in FPS was in Half Life 1. After is just the same soup with better graphics.

&#62;Your second comment is bewildering. Why do you think we can’t know why Chugworth drew the comic? He has explained it. Even if it was ambiguous, Luke is attacking explicit *responses.* They believe that JR was “being a slut to sell the game” and that putting her on Assassin’s Creed “must have been a marketing stunt.” I’ve seen lengthy discussion board threads picking apart her resume trying to figure out how a pretty girl could possibly have been qualified to make a game. That’s the wrong being committed here.

Well, if it`s so it is bad. I said that before, I am repeating it. It is still a maschilistic (underdeveloped) environment, and we everybody must do something to improve it (for what I saw AC is pretty cool, not innovative but cool)

&#62;Your discussion of satire is common, but misguided. The comic *IS* satire. So &#62;what? Saying something is satire is not the same as saying it is “morally ok.” The &#62;LAW grants broad brush to satire because it is “free speech,” but no one on this &#62;page has suggested that either Chugworth or Something Awful have violated THE LAW. &#62;The problem with this comic is its MESSAGE: What social problem is it trying to &#62;solve through satire? I won’t link to the comic as Luke hasn’t, but if you read &#62;it, it clearly suggests 1. JR couldn’t be smart and qualified, 2. JR is attractive &#62;and has used that quality to sell her game. You can identify it as satire and &#62;still recognize that it is both factually mistaken and morally repugnant.

Exactly what I said above. I agree with your statings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;You assert that gamers, as a group, haven’t developed much, but the gaming demographic has grown substantially in the &gt;past decade to include an unprecedented span of ages, demographics and both men and women. Are you suggesting that &gt;people in general have not advanced much?</p>
<p>I can see a lot of glitter, but a lot of dust under it as well. Sure there are some new things, but still there&#8217;s something lacking. And I tell it with a broken voice. The whole game business doesn&#8217;t convince me yet. There is something missing under what I define &#8220;art aspect&#8221;. I don&#8217;t want to start a discussion about what&#8217;s art and what&#8217;s not (it is impossible to find a real solution), but I think that, even though new generation games brought a lot of new inventions (mainly under the graphic aspect) they also brought something negative (what I call the &#8220;my graphic board is bigger than yours&#8221; syndrome for example). There is still too few in terms of subtext (or, you can still play some games without understanding that subtext). Game industry does what it is born for&#8230; selling. And to sell to as many peopole possible you have to create something &#8220;average&#8221;. We haven&#8217;t reached yet a &#8220;critical mass&#8221; point in which there will be market for really indipendent labels. However there aren&#8217;t people so bold, or crazy (call em artists if you mind) to create innovative games just because they want to, or  there aren`t people willing to sponsor them (the so called art patrons). I know there is plenty of exceptions (I.e. Crayon Physics), but they are just exceptions. About people not evolving, they really don; do that since the times of Socrates.. I am actually beholding a genaral involution. But I am not talking about gamens here.</p>
<p>&gt;Second, you suggest that games themselves have not evolved much outside of graphics. Whether games have evolved &gt;has *nothing* to do with whether gamers tend to be sexist. Stamp and coin collecting have followed conventions for &gt;decades–do you suggest that coin collectors tend to be sexist?</p>
<p>Are we sure there? Are we sure that the obsessive pursual of &#8220;X poligons in motion per frame&#8221; has nothing to do with a manly approach to the &#8220;problem?&#8221;.</p>
<p>&gt;Also, the idea that games have not evolved is simply wrong. There are dozens of games today in genres that did not (or &gt;barely) existed just a decade ago. MMOs and Rhythm games are just 2 examples. What other medium has evolved so &gt;quickly? Your attack on FPS’s makes no sense to me either. You see no real difference between Doom and Bioshock? &gt;Quake and Portal?</p>
<p>I am not talking about evolution speed. Sure it is advancing quiclky, but is not yet enough (in my humble opinion). About differences&#8230; well, no really. Last real breackthrough I saw in FPS was in Half Life 1. After is just the same soup with better graphics.</p>
<p>&gt;Your second comment is bewildering. Why do you think we can’t know why Chugworth drew the comic? He has explained it. Even if it was ambiguous, Luke is attacking explicit *responses.* They believe that JR was “being a slut to sell the game” and that putting her on Assassin’s Creed “must have been a marketing stunt.” I’ve seen lengthy discussion board threads picking apart her resume trying to figure out how a pretty girl could possibly have been qualified to make a game. That’s the wrong being committed here.</p>
<p>Well, if it`s so it is bad. I said that before, I am repeating it. It is still a maschilistic (underdeveloped) environment, and we everybody must do something to improve it (for what I saw AC is pretty cool, not innovative but cool)</p>
<p>&gt;Your discussion of satire is common, but misguided. The comic *IS* satire. So &gt;what? Saying something is satire is not the same as saying it is “morally ok.” The &gt;LAW grants broad brush to satire because it is “free speech,” but no one on this &gt;page has suggested that either Chugworth or Something Awful have violated THE LAW. &gt;The problem with this comic is its MESSAGE: What social problem is it trying to &gt;solve through satire? I won’t link to the comic as Luke hasn’t, but if you read &gt;it, it clearly suggests 1. JR couldn’t be smart and qualified, 2. JR is attractive &gt;and has used that quality to sell her game. You can identify it as satire and &gt;still recognize that it is both factually mistaken and morally repugnant.</p>
<p>Exactly what I said above. I agree with your statings.</p>
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