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	<title>Comments on: IMPACT Defense Against Multiple Assailants class</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510</link>
	<description>Because we care about stuff</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Capybyra</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-32180</link>
		<dc:creator>Capybyra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-32180</guid>
		<description>I am a nominally "vanilla" male in overt presentation for most of my daily routine. But there are times and places where "I" become a much more attractive target.
This is where my empathy for how scary our world can get comes from. Being in the "same" location appearing as one persona I am quite unlikely to feel serious threat. Appearing in another persona however is VERY likely to be risking grim events. That's a reality we either nod at or may need some education about. The readership here is likely in the "nods at" class- our "real" world is partly the REASON for such dangers or those who simply have no awareness of the concepts.

Which is why we need "Courses" in dealing with those who deal in evil. Being a victim is not a survivable option any longer. Either with weapons or skills we must all become whatever it takes to make predators the rarity. Even if it's only a mindset change.

Thus my commenting here has a targeted goal.

ALL the trainings that can make some of us literally
unarmed and lethal will not really change our larger world. The only things that can do that are sadly beyond my grasp. If you know them DO share! 

Other than the first step I have made, the rest is frosting.  That step?
A personal oath to never allow another to make me fear them. 

Be aware of a threat yes, be pro-active in handling it-yes- have that threat make me surrender - NEVER! And from that comes the next part.   
Anyone cornering any of us needs to be taught. 
That they have two paths- either give up their evil ways or one of us will put them out of our misery. Karma awaits. The more of us who DO become able and willing to reward attackers in kind can only hasten a day when predatory attempts become simple suicide. 

"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a nominally &#8220;vanilla&#8221; male in overt presentation for most of my daily routine. But there are times and places where &#8220;I&#8221; become a much more attractive target.<br />
This is where my empathy for how scary our world can get comes from. Being in the &#8220;same&#8221; location appearing as one persona I am quite unlikely to feel serious threat. Appearing in another persona however is VERY likely to be risking grim events. That&#8217;s a reality we either nod at or may need some education about. The readership here is likely in the &#8220;nods at&#8221; class- our &#8220;real&#8221; world is partly the REASON for such dangers or those who simply have no awareness of the concepts.</p>
<p>Which is why we need &#8220;Courses&#8221; in dealing with those who deal in evil. Being a victim is not a survivable option any longer. Either with weapons or skills we must all become whatever it takes to make predators the rarity. Even if it&#8217;s only a mindset change.</p>
<p>Thus my commenting here has a targeted goal.</p>
<p>ALL the trainings that can make some of us literally<br />
unarmed and lethal will not really change our larger world. The only things that can do that are sadly beyond my grasp. If you know them DO share! </p>
<p>Other than the first step I have made, the rest is frosting.  That step?<br />
A personal oath to never allow another to make me fear them. </p>
<p>Be aware of a threat yes, be pro-active in handling it-yes- have that threat make me surrender - NEVER! And from that comes the next part.<br />
Anyone cornering any of us needs to be taught.<br />
That they have two paths- either give up their evil ways or one of us will put them out of our misery. Karma awaits. The more of us who DO become able and willing to reward attackers in kind can only hasten a day when predatory attempts become simple suicide. </p>
<p>&#8220;Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-28610</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-28610</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Iâ€™ve been ousted from a few for daring to suggest that I should use the lethal weapon I have on me instead of buying some sort of non-lethal doo-dad (like an alarm or spray). Read that as me using the weapon I own and carry on my person, not a suggestion that others be so-armed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Ouch!  Sorry you had that experience--must have been very unpleasant.
&lt;blockquote&gt;The instructors were worried that Iâ€™d cause permanent damage to someone instead of just scaring them, and I got into a verbal confrontation pointing out that if Iâ€™m under assault, itâ€™s someone I know and a loud noise will not frighten them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;At least in my chapter of IMPACT (and I assume in all of the similar takes-forever-to-get-accepeted-as-a-teacher padded assailant training courses) you would've been listened to.  I can imagine my teachers echoing you to make sure everyone heard that you were discussing your own personal reactions, situation, instincts, and solutions, but it would've been up for discussion, and I'll bet they would've even come up with a neat anecdote or two that would've made you say, "Wow...thanks!"

&lt;blockquote&gt;Anyway uhâ€¦got off pointâ€¦ Oh yeah, Iâ€™d love to take a class that was more concerned with my welfare and realistic situations than some mythical (dark-skinned) alley dwellers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;That is definitely what these are for, and I think one of the reasons it takes so long for teachers to get trained is that they have to get a lot of apprentice experience watching how teachers help students prepare for assaults by assailants they know.  In my Basics course, I thought they did a great job.  I felt like they didn't frighten people who feared an acquaintance assault based on experience by dwelling on the subject and giving them the chance to think, "But that wouldn't work!  What if...?!"  Instead, they'd teach technique at one moment and just say, "if someone is on top of you like this, you can do this," and, oh, during a more discussion-based part of the class, one about feelings, the advice on applying "what we learned" (in general, rather than while we still had one particular technique on the brain) to someone we know would come up.  And come up it did--over and over, but each time in a different way.  So the conditioning was really subtle, noninvasive, and applicable to lots of life situations (since the advice framed the problem in a different way each time).

The bits of advice about defense against acquaintances and "loved" ones that spoke to me, in case you're curious, were when my teacher said something like, &lt;b&gt;"A lot of people are afraid of hitting someone who's acting aggressive and crossing their boundaries.  'What if I make him mad?' they ask.  He's already mad.  Even if you hit him and don't hit hard enough, you can't make him much more unreasonable or bring out much worse behavior in him than he was already displaying by refusing to listen to your verbal boundary-setting.  If that happens...hit him again!  Just don't forget that he's the one who is already acting in a way that he shouldn't, so you can't 'make' him act in a way he shouldn't,"&lt;/b&gt; and when she said something like, &lt;b&gt;"No one has the right to hurt you for defending yourself.  If you sound rude when you set your boundaries, someone might think you're rude because of his own sense of privilege or because you did sound a little rude.  But even if you did hurt his feelings when you told him what you needed from him, he has &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; right to hurt you physically or threaten to hurt you physically for it.  If his feelings are hurt, let him walk away muttering a curse word under his breath.  As long as he walks away or otherwise responds by deescalation.  But trying to hurt you for something you said is &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt; no matter what our relationship to each other has been, and you are completely in the right to keep yourself from being harmed."&lt;/b&gt;

That second idea was also stated by one of the male instructors.




So yeah, every class's advice is different, I'm sure--what I heard was half made up extemporaneously in response to the student makeup, but I do have a lot of respect for the ways these teachers go about addressing acquaintance intimidation, assault, and rape.

(Oh, by the way, the "muggers" (a (usually) male instructor while in character) also play an important role by speaking to you as if they know you during some attacks.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Iâ€™ve been ousted from a few for daring to suggest that I should use the lethal weapon I have on me instead of buying some sort of non-lethal doo-dad (like an alarm or spray). Read that as me using the weapon I own and carry on my person, not a suggestion that others be so-armed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ouch!  Sorry you had that experience&#8211;must have been very unpleasant.</p>
<blockquote><p>The instructors were worried that Iâ€™d cause permanent damage to someone instead of just scaring them, and I got into a verbal confrontation pointing out that if Iâ€™m under assault, itâ€™s someone I know and a loud noise will not frighten them.</p></blockquote>
<p>At least in my chapter of IMPACT (and I assume in all of the similar takes-forever-to-get-accepeted-as-a-teacher padded assailant training courses) you would&#8217;ve been listened to.  I can imagine my teachers echoing you to make sure everyone heard that you were discussing your own personal reactions, situation, instincts, and solutions, but it would&#8217;ve been up for discussion, and I&#8217;ll bet they would&#8217;ve even come up with a neat anecdote or two that would&#8217;ve made you say, &#8220;Wow&#8230;thanks!&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>Anyway uhâ€¦got off pointâ€¦ Oh yeah, Iâ€™d love to take a class that was more concerned with my welfare and realistic situations than some mythical (dark-skinned) alley dwellers.</p></blockquote>
<p>That is definitely what these are for, and I think one of the reasons it takes so long for teachers to get trained is that they have to get a lot of apprentice experience watching how teachers help students prepare for assaults by assailants they know.  In my Basics course, I thought they did a great job.  I felt like they didn&#8217;t frighten people who feared an acquaintance assault based on experience by dwelling on the subject and giving them the chance to think, &#8220;But that wouldn&#8217;t work!  What if&#8230;?!&#8221;  Instead, they&#8217;d teach technique at one moment and just say, &#8220;if someone is on top of you like this, you can do this,&#8221; and, oh, during a more discussion-based part of the class, one about feelings, the advice on applying &#8220;what we learned&#8221; (in general, rather than while we still had one particular technique on the brain) to someone we know would come up.  And come up it did&#8211;over and over, but each time in a different way.  So the conditioning was really subtle, noninvasive, and applicable to lots of life situations (since the advice framed the problem in a different way each time).</p>
<p>The bits of advice about defense against acquaintances and &#8220;loved&#8221; ones that spoke to me, in case you&#8217;re curious, were when my teacher said something like, <b>&#8220;A lot of people are afraid of hitting someone who&#8217;s acting aggressive and crossing their boundaries.  &#8216;What if I make him mad?&#8217; they ask.  He&#8217;s already mad.  Even if you hit him and don&#8217;t hit hard enough, you can&#8217;t make him much more unreasonable or bring out much worse behavior in him than he was already displaying by refusing to listen to your verbal boundary-setting.  If that happens&#8230;hit him again!  Just don&#8217;t forget that he&#8217;s the one who is already acting in a way that he shouldn&#8217;t, so you can&#8217;t &#8216;make&#8217; him act in a way he shouldn&#8217;t,&#8221;</b> and when she said something like, <b>&#8220;No one has the right to hurt you for defending yourself.  If you sound rude when you set your boundaries, someone might think you&#8217;re rude because of his own sense of privilege or because you did sound a little rude.  But even if you did hurt his feelings when you told him what you needed from him, he has <i>no</i> right to hurt you physically or threaten to hurt you physically for it.  If his feelings are hurt, let him walk away muttering a curse word under his breath.  As long as he walks away or otherwise responds by deescalation.  But trying to hurt you for something you said is <i>wrong</i> no matter what our relationship to each other has been, and you are completely in the right to keep yourself from being harmed.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>That second idea was also stated by one of the male instructors.</p>
<p>So yeah, every class&#8217;s advice is different, I&#8217;m sure&#8211;what I heard was half made up extemporaneously in response to the student makeup, but I do have a lot of respect for the ways these teachers go about addressing acquaintance intimidation, assault, and rape.</p>
<p>(Oh, by the way, the &#8220;muggers&#8221; (a (usually) male instructor while in character) also play an important role by speaking to you as if they know you during some attacks.)</p>
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		<title>By: Godless Heathen</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-28285</link>
		<dc:creator>Godless Heathen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 05:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-28285</guid>
		<description>Wow!  This sounds like a class I'd actually want to take.  I've been avoiding most of the "women's self defense" classes because they're too focused on strangers and not focused enough on tactics.  Plus I've been ousted from a few for daring to suggest that I should use the lethal weapon I have on me instead of buying some sort of non-lethal doo-dad (like an alarm or spray).  Read that as me using the weapon I own and carry on my person, not a suggestion that others be so-armed.  The instructors were worried that I'd cause permanent damage to someone instead of just scaring them, and I got into a verbal confrontation pointing out that if I'm under assault, it's someone I know and a loud noise will not frighten them.  Anyway uh...got off point...  Oh yeah, I'd love to take a class that was more concerned with my welfare and realistic situations than some mythical (dark-skinned) alley dwellers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  This sounds like a class I&#8217;d actually want to take.  I&#8217;ve been avoiding most of the &#8220;women&#8217;s self defense&#8221; classes because they&#8217;re too focused on strangers and not focused enough on tactics.  Plus I&#8217;ve been ousted from a few for daring to suggest that I should use the lethal weapon I have on me instead of buying some sort of non-lethal doo-dad (like an alarm or spray).  Read that as me using the weapon I own and carry on my person, not a suggestion that others be so-armed.  The instructors were worried that I&#8217;d cause permanent damage to someone instead of just scaring them, and I got into a verbal confrontation pointing out that if I&#8217;m under assault, it&#8217;s someone I know and a loud noise will not frighten them.  Anyway uh&#8230;got off point&#8230;  Oh yeah, I&#8217;d love to take a class that was more concerned with my welfare and realistic situations than some mythical (dark-skinned) alley dwellers.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-27848</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-27848</guid>
		<description>Oh, by the way, if you post here what states you're interested in finding non-sexist padded assailant training in, I'll let you know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, by the way, if you post here what states you&#8217;re interested in finding non-sexist padded assailant training in, I&#8217;ll let you know!</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-27845</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-27845</guid>
		<description>So have I--but IMPACT isn't like that.  In fact, I want to be an IMPACT instructor someday, because I think this method of teaching self-defense is so sensitive and dead-on and truly useful that it should reach as many people as possible (and needs more staff to do so), but it looks like it's going to be at least 3 years until I can even START my several-year training, IF they'll take me at that point.

They're a lot more serious about using feminist and personal experience critique of other self-defense courses to keep themselves excellent than more prolific self-defense programs are.

It'd be neat if there were an IMPACTish program close enough to you for Comcast Cable to hire them in-house.  (IMPACT chapters often rely on corporate &#38; other private group gigs to keep them in business, by the way.)  Then Comcast executives who took the class would see the difference and, if you got REALLY lucky, be so sold on it that they'd pay for IMPACT or something similar to come to your school next time around.

Heh.  In MY class (IMPACT "core basics," or single unarmed assailant training), MY teacher said, in not so many words, "If I'm wearing a short skirt and he sees up it when I'm on the ground, he sees up it.  I don't think it'll matter much to him either way once I've kicked him in the head."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So have I&#8211;but IMPACT isn&#8217;t like that.  In fact, I want to be an IMPACT instructor someday, because I think this method of teaching self-defense is so sensitive and dead-on and truly useful that it should reach as many people as possible (and needs more staff to do so), but it looks like it&#8217;s going to be at least 3 years until I can even START my several-year training, IF they&#8217;ll take me at that point.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re a lot more serious about using feminist and personal experience critique of other self-defense courses to keep themselves excellent than more prolific self-defense programs are.</p>
<p>It&#8217;d be neat if there were an IMPACTish program close enough to you for Comcast Cable to hire them in-house.  (IMPACT chapters often rely on corporate &amp; other private group gigs to keep them in business, by the way.)  Then Comcast executives who took the class would see the difference and, if you got REALLY lucky, be so sold on it that they&#8217;d pay for IMPACT or something similar to come to your school next time around.</p>
<p>Heh.  In MY class (IMPACT &#8220;core basics,&#8221; or single unarmed assailant training), MY teacher said, in not so many words, &#8220;If I&#8217;m wearing a short skirt and he sees up it when I&#8217;m on the ground, he sees up it.  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;ll matter much to him either way once I&#8217;ve kicked him in the head.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lake Desire</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-26002</link>
		<dc:creator>Lake Desire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 04:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/katie/2007-02-02_510#comment-26002</guid>
		<description>I've heard horror stories about how sexist women's self defense workshops can be.  Comcast Cable sponsored one at my school last quarter, and my feminist friends who went said that the male police officers Comcast hired reminded all the ladies, in not so many words, they ought not go out at night in a short skirt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard horror stories about how sexist women&#8217;s self defense workshops can be.  Comcast Cable sponsored one at my school last quarter, and my feminist friends who went said that the male police officers Comcast hired reminded all the ladies, in not so many words, they ought not go out at night in a short skirt.</p>
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