<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Harlan Ellison&#8217;s &#8220;Apology&#8221;:  Sorry I Rubbed You the Wrong Way</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376</link>
	<description>Because we care about stuff</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Bubba</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-3982</link>
		<dc:creator>Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-3982</guid>
		<description>Forgot to mention--In one harassing incident, Harlan's stooges caused Palmer, already elderly and crippled, to fall and hurt himself when he was cornered in an elevator at a convention.

Despicable, but everyone pretends not to remember, and kisses his ass.

-Bubba</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgot to mention&#8211;In one harassing incident, Harlan&#8217;s stooges caused Palmer, already elderly and crippled, to fall and hurt himself when he was cornered in an elevator at a convention.</p>
<p>Despicable, but everyone pretends not to remember, and kisses his ass.</p>
<p>-Bubba</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bubba</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-3973</link>
		<dc:creator>Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-3973</guid>
		<description>Ray Palmer, undeserving target of Harlan Ellisonâ€™s meanness for many years, is laughing somewhere.

Ellison has largely made himself a pseudo-celebrity by his outrageous actions. As many older writers and fans remember (but do they DARE to speak?) Ellison intentionally recruited fans to harass and ridicule an aging and already crippled Palmer at SCIFI Conventions in the 60s and early 70s, intentionally distorted and took out of context what the man said, and did everything he could to ruin him. Palmer, of course, was the one-time editor of Amazing Stories who started the whole â€œShaver Mysteryâ€ rolling. In addition to being a legendary force in early scifi and fantasy publishing, he was a kind-hearted gent who loved the fans and also committed the Harlan-ordained â€™sinâ€™ of having an interest in exploring the paranormal, UFOs, and other strange phenomena.

Yep, Palmer is laughing somewhere, and given Ellisonâ€™s history, itâ€™s probably a lot more pleasant somewhere than Harlan will end up--despite all the ass-kissing from pros and fans alike.

-Bubba</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray Palmer, undeserving target of Harlan Ellisonâ€™s meanness for many years, is laughing somewhere.</p>
<p>Ellison has largely made himself a pseudo-celebrity by his outrageous actions. As many older writers and fans remember (but do they DARE to speak?) Ellison intentionally recruited fans to harass and ridicule an aging and already crippled Palmer at SCIFI Conventions in the 60s and early 70s, intentionally distorted and took out of context what the man said, and did everything he could to ruin him. Palmer, of course, was the one-time editor of Amazing Stories who started the whole â€œShaver Mysteryâ€ rolling. In addition to being a legendary force in early scifi and fantasy publishing, he was a kind-hearted gent who loved the fans and also committed the Harlan-ordained â€™sinâ€™ of having an interest in exploring the paranormal, UFOs, and other strange phenomena.</p>
<p>Yep, Palmer is laughing somewhere, and given Ellisonâ€™s history, itâ€™s probably a lot more pleasant somewhere than Harlan will end up&#8211;despite all the ass-kissing from pros and fans alike.</p>
<p>-Bubba</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Apolygys</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2578</link>
		<dc:creator>Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Apolygys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2578</guid>
		<description>[...] Why is it so hard for people to apologize for offending people? It can be done.  &#160; [link]    Filed under Eradicating Divisive Discourse       &#171; That&#8217;s notMii! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why is it so hard for people to apologize for offending people? It can be done.  &nbsp; [link]    Filed under Eradicating Divisive Discourse       &laquo; That&#8217;s notMii! [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Men Stereotyping Men [Red-blooded American Sexist, Part 1]</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2179</link>
		<dc:creator>Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Men Stereotyping Men [Red-blooded American Sexist, Part 1]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2179</guid>
		<description>[...] This one is somewhat less insidious than the &#8220;Men as Beasts&#8221; trope, but is similarly used to abdicate responsibility for bad behaviour (see the Ellison incident). You can see this in other areas, too, such as domestic product commercials that feature men &#8212; you know those ones where the man is responsible for cleaning up, or cooking dinner, or whatever and he botches it so badly that you wonder how he got through life without accidently killing himself from sheer stupidity. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This one is somewhat less insidious than the &#8220;Men as Beasts&#8221; trope, but is similarly used to abdicate responsibility for bad behaviour (see the Ellison incident). You can see this in other areas, too, such as domestic product commercials that feature men &#8212; you know those ones where the man is responsible for cleaning up, or cooking dinner, or whatever and he botches it so badly that you wonder how he got through life without accidently killing himself from sheer stupidity. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What To Do When You Screw Up</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2137</link>
		<dc:creator>Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What To Do When You Screw Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2137</guid>
		<description>[...] of denial, minimization and blame-shifting. Thanks for pointing out the high road, Hugo.   &#160; [link]    Filed under Eradicating Divisive Discourse       &#171; I Was A TeenageFeminist [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of denial, minimization and blame-shifting. Thanks for pointing out the high road, Hugo.   &nbsp; [link]    Filed under Eradicating Divisive Discourse       &laquo; I Was A TeenageFeminist [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jfpbookworm</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2044</link>
		<dc:creator>jfpbookworm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-2044</guid>
		<description>Sailorman:  by "non-apology", I meant the sort of statement made to the general public that, while nominally expressing regret, comes across as hollow because they don't regret their actions, or don't feel they did anything wrong, or don't want to admit to it; that it's being made only because other people expect it.  And that's how his statement comes across to me.

The bit you quoted, which indeed is the closest thing to an apology in the statement, has a few curious properties:  First, it is phrased entirely in the passive voice (of "mistakes were made" fame).  It's phrased in general principles, and only touches upon Ellison's actual action.  Compare this to the description of George W. Bush's inappropriate action (which you elided), which is phrased in the active voice.

Second, it contains no actual statement of remorse.  Ellison's grope may be "inexcusable, indefensible, gauche, and properly offensive," (again, gauche?!) but there's no indication that he's actually sorry.  Rather, he goes on to take pride in "72 years of indefensible, gauche (yet for the most part classy), horrifying, jaw-dropping, sophomoric, sometimes imbecile behavior."

Third, it's bracketed by the sentences "YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!" and "I agree wholeheartedly."  This puts the "apology" in a context of an external demand, something that we fans are *making* him do rather than something that is originating from him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sailorman:  by &#8220;non-apology&#8221;, I meant the sort of statement made to the general public that, while nominally expressing regret, comes across as hollow because they don&#8217;t regret their actions, or don&#8217;t feel they did anything wrong, or don&#8217;t want to admit to it; that it&#8217;s being made only because other people expect it.  And that&#8217;s how his statement comes across to me.</p>
<p>The bit you quoted, which indeed is the closest thing to an apology in the statement, has a few curious properties:  First, it is phrased entirely in the passive voice (of &#8220;mistakes were made&#8221; fame).  It&#8217;s phrased in general principles, and only touches upon Ellison&#8217;s actual action.  Compare this to the description of George W. Bush&#8217;s inappropriate action (which you elided), which is phrased in the active voice.</p>
<p>Second, it contains no actual statement of remorse.  Ellison&#8217;s grope may be &#8220;inexcusable, indefensible, gauche, and properly offensive,&#8221; (again, gauche?!) but there&#8217;s no indication that he&#8217;s actually sorry.  Rather, he goes on to take pride in &#8220;72 years of indefensible, gauche (yet for the most part classy), horrifying, jaw-dropping, sophomoric, sometimes imbecile behavior.&#8221;</p>
<p>Third, it&#8217;s bracketed by the sentences &#8220;YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!&#8221; and &#8220;I agree wholeheartedly.&#8221;  This puts the &#8220;apology&#8221; in a context of an external demand, something that we fans are *making* him do rather than something that is originating from him.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ellison digs himself deeper into the hole</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1971</link>
		<dc:creator>Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ellison digs himself deeper into the hole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1971</guid>
		<description>[...] Since jfpbookworm did such a great job deconstructing the first &#8220;apology&#8221;, I think it&#8217;s only fitting that we subject Ellison&#8217;s newest offering to analysis as well. One, because he&#8217;s so spectacularly idiotic - but more importantly, because of the unexamined privilege that drips from his words alongside the expected arrogance. He may be a talented writer, but that skill does nothing to save him from his underlying sexist assumptions. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Since jfpbookworm did such a great job deconstructing the first &#8220;apology&#8221;, I think it&#8217;s only fitting that we subject Ellison&#8217;s newest offering to analysis as well. One, because he&#8217;s so spectacularly idiotic - but more importantly, because of the unexamined privilege that drips from his words alongside the expected arrogance. He may be a talented writer, but that skill does nothing to save him from his underlying sexist assumptions. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tekanji</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1934</link>
		<dc:creator>tekanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1934</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Sailorman:&lt;/b&gt; You're acting as if that part of the apology is the only part that's there. You do realize that if Ellis' apology was just that line, people would be treating this situation much differently, don't you? But &lt;b&gt;context is just as important as the singular things people say.&lt;/b&gt; Jeff isn't pulling these other quotes from random time in Ellis' life -- he isn't even pulling from subsequent posts that Ellis made on the matter! -- these are all from &lt;i&gt;the same post&lt;/i&gt;.

It should also be noted that, after saying all that, Ellis went on to say &lt;a href="http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/990339.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; &lt;i&gt;[emphasis mine]&lt;/i&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;On a more serious note: &lt;b&gt;if&lt;/b&gt;, in fact, Connie (or Courtney, or Cordelia) &lt;b&gt;were/are/might in any way be offended&lt;/b&gt; by this latest demonstration of give'n'take jackanapery between Connie and Harlan (now in its longest-run on Broadway), you may all rest assured &lt;b&gt;I will apologize vehemently&lt;/b&gt;, will crawl to Colorado through broken glass and steaming embers, and beg her (their) forgiveness. I need no one to prompt me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

By saying what's essentially "if she was offended, then I'll apologize," I think it makes it very clear that what he said above, despite the part about him seeming to fess up, was, in fact, &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; an apology. Furthermore, I suggest you check out &lt;a href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2006-09-01_377" rel="nofollow"&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;, where he makes it further clear that he in no way, shape, or form believes that he did something wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Sailorman:</b> You&#8217;re acting as if that part of the apology is the only part that&#8217;s there. You do realize that if Ellis&#8217; apology was just that line, people would be treating this situation much differently, don&#8217;t you? But <b>context is just as important as the singular things people say.</b> Jeff isn&#8217;t pulling these other quotes from random time in Ellis&#8217; life &#8212; he isn&#8217;t even pulling from subsequent posts that Ellis made on the matter! &#8212; these are all from <i>the same post</i>.</p>
<p>It should also be noted that, after saying all that, Ellis went on to say <a href="http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/990339.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> <i>[emphasis mine]</i>:</p>
<blockquote><p>On a more serious note: <b>if</b>, in fact, Connie (or Courtney, or Cordelia) <b>were/are/might in any way be offended</b> by this latest demonstration of give&#8217;n'take jackanapery between Connie and Harlan (now in its longest-run on Broadway), you may all rest assured <b>I will apologize vehemently</b>, will crawl to Colorado through broken glass and steaming embers, and beg her (their) forgiveness. I need no one to prompt me.</p></blockquote>
<p>By saying what&#8217;s essentially &#8220;if she was offended, then I&#8217;ll apologize,&#8221; I think it makes it very clear that what he said above, despite the part about him seeming to fess up, was, in fact, <i>not</i> an apology. Furthermore, I suggest you check out <a href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2006-09-01_377" rel="nofollow">this post</a>, where he makes it further clear that he in no way, shape, or form believes that he did something wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sigel Phoenix</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1916</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigel Phoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1916</guid>
		<description>Great job on breaking down Ellison's implicit message. I do think that, if one is as objective as possible, parts of Ellison's "apology" can be seen as sincere and not sarcastic. However, this can only excuse some of the writing; taken as a whole, it's indefensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great job on breaking down Ellison&#8217;s implicit message. I do think that, if one is as objective as possible, parts of Ellison&#8217;s &#8220;apology&#8221; can be seen as sincere and not sarcastic. However, this can only excuse some of the writing; taken as a whole, it&#8217;s indefensible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sailorman</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1909</link>
		<dc:creator>Sailorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-08-31_376#comment-1909</guid>
		<description>I am a bit confused how one can parse this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE FOR A MAN TO GRAB A WOMANâ€™S BREAST WITHOUT HER EXPLICIT PERMISSION. To do otherwise is to go â€˜way over the line in terms of invasion of someoneâ€™s personal space. It is crude behavior at best, and actionable behavior at worst....
    For me to grab Connieâ€™s breast is inexcusable, indefensible, gauche, and properly offensive to any observers or those who heard of it later.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and get this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
She linked to Ellisonâ€™s apology, which was the sort of &lt;b&gt;non-apology&lt;/b&gt; Iâ€™ve gotten used to hearing from public figures when they donâ€™t understand that they did anything wrong.  (emphasis mine)
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Non-apology?

What's interesting to me is that this post uses the tactic of "what you said is ___, but what you REALLY MEANT is ____."  That gets used all the time &lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt; feminists, often in the "what you REALLY mean is that you hate men/want men castrated/are a lesbian/etc etc."  SO I'm surprised you're using it as well.  I might also note that when one is dealing with an author who (even if he's an asshole) is capable of expressing what he means fairly well.  So I figure that if he said something, well, that's what he meant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a bit confused how one can parse this:</p>
<blockquote><p>
IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE FOR A MAN TO GRAB A WOMANâ€™S BREAST WITHOUT HER EXPLICIT PERMISSION. To do otherwise is to go â€˜way over the line in terms of invasion of someoneâ€™s personal space. It is crude behavior at best, and actionable behavior at worst&#8230;.<br />
    For me to grab Connieâ€™s breast is inexcusable, indefensible, gauche, and properly offensive to any observers or those who heard of it later.
</p></blockquote>
<p>and get this:</p>
<blockquote><p>
She linked to Ellisonâ€™s apology, which was the sort of <b>non-apology</b> Iâ€™ve gotten used to hearing from public figures when they donâ€™t understand that they did anything wrong.  (emphasis mine)
</p></blockquote>
<p>Non-apology?</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting to me is that this post uses the tactic of &#8220;what you said is ___, but what you REALLY MEANT is ____.&#8221;  That gets used all the time <i>against</i> feminists, often in the &#8220;what you REALLY mean is that you hate men/want men castrated/are a lesbian/etc etc.&#8221;  SO I&#8217;m surprised you&#8217;re using it as well.  I might also note that when one is dealing with an author who (even if he&#8217;s an asshole) is capable of expressing what he means fairly well.  So I figure that if he said something, well, that&#8217;s what he meant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
