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	<title>Comments on: Tradition and the obscuring of gender violence [Women and Violence, Part 4]</title>
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	<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588</link>
	<description>Because we care about stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The obligatory FGC post [Women and Violence, Part 6]</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-65843</link>
		<dc:creator>Official Shrub.com Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The obligatory FGC post [Women and Violence, Part 6]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 03:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-65843</guid>
		<description>[...] Recognizing the agency of women in societies that practice FGC means one, very significant thing: debunking the false dichotomy between paternalistically controlling FGC-practicing societies in order to end FGC, or leaving them alone and abandoning the women victimized by FGC. As I said in my earlier post on tradition, there is always the option to support the women who are helping themselves. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Recognizing the agency of women in societies that practice FGC means one, very significant thing: debunking the false dichotomy between paternalistically controlling FGC-practicing societies in order to end FGC, or leaving them alone and abandoning the women victimized by FGC. As I said in my earlier post on tradition, there is always the option to support the women who are helping themselves. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sigel Phoenix</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-64110</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigel Phoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 04:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-64110</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Scarred&lt;/b&gt;: Thank you. I&#039;m glad you&#039;re finding this series useful.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The question is, how on earth do we get people to *wake up* to this fact?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, blogging is my outreach/education method of choice. ;)

&lt;b&gt;Cat&lt;/b&gt;: Thanks for the link!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Scarred</b>: Thank you. I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re finding this series useful.</p>
<blockquote><p>The question is, how on earth do we get people to *wake up* to this fact?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, blogging is my outreach/education method of choice. <img src='http://blog.shrub.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><b>Cat</b>: Thanks for the link!</p>
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		<title>By: Cat</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-63519</link>
		<dc:creator>Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 16:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-63519</guid>
		<description>Member of my Network saw this - I thought of you: http://www.takebackthetech.net/index.php

Keep on feministing! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Member of my Network saw this &#8211; I thought of you: <a href="http://www.takebackthetech.net/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.takebackthetech.net/index.php</a></p>
<p>Keep on feministing! <img src='http://blog.shrub.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Scarred</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-63474</link>
		<dc:creator>Scarred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 06:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-63474</guid>
		<description>Powerful and illuminating series.  I&#039;m glad I came to this blogsite.  Tradition is undoubtedly the primary driving force behind gendered violence&#039;s continued existence.

I particularly appreciate the truth being told about how Western civilization is no better than non-Western civilization in its oppression of women via adherance to traditions.  It&#039;s time that people realize that Western culture disappears women&#039;s dignity faster than you can say &quot;jackrabbit.&quot;  Some Muslim women have commented that the dignity of Western women is severely undermined by the strip-club-and-pornoculture that we have, and they&#039;re absolutely right!!  The question is, how on earth do we get people to *wake up* to this fact?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Powerful and illuminating series.  I&#8217;m glad I came to this blogsite.  Tradition is undoubtedly the primary driving force behind gendered violence&#8217;s continued existence.</p>
<p>I particularly appreciate the truth being told about how Western civilization is no better than non-Western civilization in its oppression of women via adherance to traditions.  It&#8217;s time that people realize that Western culture disappears women&#8217;s dignity faster than you can say &#8220;jackrabbit.&#8221;  Some Muslim women have commented that the dignity of Western women is severely undermined by the strip-club-and-pornoculture that we have, and they&#8217;re absolutely right!!  The question is, how on earth do we get people to *wake up* to this fact?</p>
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		<title>By: Sigel Phoenix</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-63394</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigel Phoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-63394</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone for the supportive comments!

&lt;b&gt;Fire Fly&lt;/b&gt;: You&#039;re exactly right. Thanks for the article; I&#039;ve only skimmed it so far but it looks like it&#039;s right on.

&lt;b&gt;01d55&lt;/b&gt;: &lt;blockquote&gt;Iâ€™ve never in my life known of any decent thing being successfully defended by an appeal to tradition.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, I would say that the general idea of solidarity with/respect for the past can be tied to tradition. In this sense, I think you could use &quot;tradition&quot; when talking about the history of feminism, for example. So tradition doesn&#039;t have to be inherently damaging. But I do agree that the concept is extremely vulnerable to misuse.

&lt;b&gt;Luke&lt;/b&gt;: &lt;blockquote&gt;Iâ€™ve heard this especially when it comes to criticizing sexist media. â€œItâ€™s just a TV show/movie/advertisement..there are people starving and dying from AIDS out there and youâ€™re complaining about this?!â€&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh, right, &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; &quot;defense.&quot; I&#039;m glad tekanji put together the great &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-05-24_170&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;rebuttal&lt;/a&gt; that saves me the time from having to write one myself. :D

Also, great examples about other &quot;fine American traditions&quot; that deserve debunking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for the supportive comments!</p>
<p><b>Fire Fly</b>: You&#8217;re exactly right. Thanks for the article; I&#8217;ve only skimmed it so far but it looks like it&#8217;s right on.</p>
<p><b>01d55</b>:<br />
<blockquote>Iâ€™ve never in my life known of any decent thing being successfully defended by an appeal to tradition.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, I would say that the general idea of solidarity with/respect for the past can be tied to tradition. In this sense, I think you could use &#8220;tradition&#8221; when talking about the history of feminism, for example. So tradition doesn&#8217;t have to be inherently damaging. But I do agree that the concept is extremely vulnerable to misuse.</p>
<p><b>Luke</b>:<br />
<blockquote>Iâ€™ve heard this especially when it comes to criticizing sexist media. â€œItâ€™s just a TV show/movie/advertisement..there are people starving and dying from AIDS out there and youâ€™re complaining about this?!â€</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh, right, <i>that</i> &#8220;defense.&#8221; I&#8217;m glad tekanji put together the great <a href="http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-05-24_170" rel="nofollow">rebuttal</a> that saves me the time from having to write one myself. <img src='http://blog.shrub.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Also, great examples about other &#8220;fine American traditions&#8221; that deserve debunking.</p>
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		<title>By: tekanji</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-62587</link>
		<dc:creator>tekanji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-62587</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;TG:&lt;/b&gt; Glad you&#039;re enjoying the series, but I can&#039;t take credit for it. This is Dora&#039;s baby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>TG:</b> Glad you&#8217;re enjoying the series, but I can&#8217;t take credit for it. This is Dora&#8217;s baby.</p>
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		<title>By: thinking girl</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-62477</link>
		<dc:creator>thinking girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-62477</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really loving this series, Tekanji. I&#039;m posting a link to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really loving this series, Tekanji. I&#8217;m posting a link to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-62351</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-62351</guid>
		<description>&quot;But the question is a false one, one which serves both misogynist and white supremacist interests by trying to make us choose between one oppression or the other.&quot; 

&gt;I&#039;ve heard this especially when it comes to criticizing sexist media. &quot;It&#039;s just a TV show/movie/advertisement..there are people starving and dying from AIDS out there and you&#039;re complaining about this?!&quot;

&quot;We have our own insidious ways of perpetuating gender bias, from the tradition of making women take their husbandâ€™s last name to the idealization of the private sphere, which sets up the nuclear family as the domain of the head of the household (read: men). The latter tradition directly influences the practice of gendered violence, as it has historically been one of the biggest obstacles to feminist attempts to raise awareness and resistance to domestic violence.&quot;

&gt;And also that for certain &quot;American&quot; religions where divorce is seen as a sin...women often in position where they&#039;re maligned either way. I don&#039;t remember where I read it, but there was a famous survey a while back of Clergy, priests or whatever and an overwhelming majority said that DV &lt;i&gt;wouldn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; be grounds for divorce and that the abused women should &quot;pray for strength to endure it.&quot; Also been reading Lundy Bancroft&#039;s Why Does He Do That and there is some really interesting stuff in there that talks about dynamics of abusive men, women and children in that the family domain is pretty much set up to demonize and blame abused women while pitting the children against their mothers and consequently creating this deceptive sympathy for the abusive men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But the question is a false one, one which serves both misogynist and white supremacist interests by trying to make us choose between one oppression or the other.&#8221; </p>
<p>&gt;I&#8217;ve heard this especially when it comes to criticizing sexist media. &#8220;It&#8217;s just a TV show/movie/advertisement..there are people starving and dying from AIDS out there and you&#8217;re complaining about this?!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;We have our own insidious ways of perpetuating gender bias, from the tradition of making women take their husbandâ€™s last name to the idealization of the private sphere, which sets up the nuclear family as the domain of the head of the household (read: men). The latter tradition directly influences the practice of gendered violence, as it has historically been one of the biggest obstacles to feminist attempts to raise awareness and resistance to domestic violence.&#8221;</p>
<p>&gt;And also that for certain &#8220;American&#8221; religions where divorce is seen as a sin&#8230;women often in position where they&#8217;re maligned either way. I don&#8217;t remember where I read it, but there was a famous survey a while back of Clergy, priests or whatever and an overwhelming majority said that DV <i>wouldn&#8217;t</i> be grounds for divorce and that the abused women should &#8220;pray for strength to endure it.&#8221; Also been reading Lundy Bancroft&#8217;s Why Does He Do That and there is some really interesting stuff in there that talks about dynamics of abusive men, women and children in that the family domain is pretty much set up to demonize and blame abused women while pitting the children against their mothers and consequently creating this deceptive sympathy for the abusive men.</p>
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		<title>By: 01d55</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-62305</link>
		<dc:creator>01d55</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-62305</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never in my life known of any decent thing being successfully defended by an appeal to tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never in my life known of any decent thing being successfully defended by an appeal to tradition.</p>
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		<title>By: Fire Fly</title>
		<link>http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588/comment-page-1#comment-62239</link>
		<dc:creator>Fire Fly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.shrub.com/archives/dora/2007-04-27_588#comment-62239</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll add &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss15/kapur.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt; to the message of the post... and mention that minimising the agency and history of feminisms outside the West fuels Western imperialist patriarchy. Pretending like women of colour can&#039;t have a voice or agency, or engage in oppositional politics, gives the West pretext for intervening in non-Western countries. See Afghanistan, Iran, India...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll add <a href="http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss15/kapur.shtml" rel="nofollow">this article</a> to the message of the post&#8230; and mention that minimising the agency and history of feminisms outside the West fuels Western imperialist patriarchy. Pretending like women of colour can&#8217;t have a voice or agency, or engage in oppositional politics, gives the West pretext for intervening in non-Western countries. See Afghanistan, Iran, India&#8230;</p>
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