This is a great site!
-n

On the other hand, it’s so frustrating when you’re hit with a person or event that doesn’t allow for teaching or gradual persuasion - such as Tekanji’s experience with street harassment. It feels like hitting a sudden brick wall. In cases like those, I think being forceful like you is one of the best options. If you know a person is hopelessly ignorant and you don’t have the opportunity to actually talk to them, what’s most important is you - asserting your boundaries and getting the message across that you don’t tolerate the other person’s behavior.

Nevvuhtheless, educating boys is great fun and utterly worth it. I’m a teacher and a mother. Boys, and girls, of course, may be miniature in stature, but they are large and flexible of brain. They are forming new opinions all of the time. They are watching us and noting what we do. As the old saying goes, the personal is political. All of the wildly articulate women writing - right here on this comments page - are surely walking around and spreading intelligence and ethical ideas everywhere. That doesn’t mean we always know what to say to Dad when he’s a dork. But people are watching, even when you don’t notice. And children, in particular, are learning from our every movement, pun intended!

I really feel where you’re coming from on educating people close to you. I have some similar feelings about my own father, and yet - I do love him and feel thankful for what he’s done for me, so criticizing him feels ungrateful or something. Of course, I realize that good people can still be sexist, and gratitude for one thing should prevent us from correcting a different wrong … but in practice, it’s hard. So far I focus on talking to those among my loved ones who have a more willing ear, which might work for you as well.

Also: “It pisses me off that I have to do it at all, but then again, it took someone willing to teach me to open my eyes, so I try to have some modicum of patience.” Hear, hear. I try to remember that myself.

But the people I know? I can’t do it. I think back to how my coming out affected them, and although they’ve ‘recovered’ from the shock of having a bi poly daughter/sister/niece/friend, it was still a rather traumatic experience. I’m not sure I want to rock the boat further and risk relationships I’ve had literally all my life. My dad’s the first and foremost person I’m wrestling with right now. When I write to tell him about how much I enjoy my “Psychology of Human Sexuality” class and he writes back that, at the tender raging-hormones age of 20, he wouldn’t have been able to sit that class without feeling the need to leave and “tackle” the first female he encountered — and then passing it off as “boys are just wired that way” — how do I respond to that? How do I make him understand how frightening that kind of thinking is to me, his daughter? I mean, I could call him on it, but I don’t think I could handle the inevitable response of not being taken seriously or, worse, his arguing against my stance to defend his privilege. Hell, I can barely stand to think that my father might be the most sexist man I know — it burns me up inside, and makes me wonder how to approach a relationship that heretofore has been good, amicable, and full of love and laughter. And then I feel like a hypocrite for not saying anything, and that more than anything pisses me off.

If there’s a happy medium that doesn’t feel hypocritical, I’d love to know where to find it. I don’t want to be angry all the time, but neither do I want to simply bury my head in the sand and pretend that ignorance is bliss.

Perinteger: You’re right on in your description of “noise” from trolls. I used to advocate totally open spaces, thinking that only by listening to every voice could we make progress. However, I’ve since realized that for some people, the purpose (deliberate or not) is to stymie progress, and being overly inclusive can hurt the quality of discussion. Because of that, I’m more relieved than disappointed to see stronger moderation policies on blogs such as this one, or Alas, a blog.

At the same time, I appreciate the openness of bloggers like The Happy Feminist and Hugo Schwyzer, who put up with a greater amount of antagonism. They are the diplomatic type of feminists, and their blogs reflect that. I would suggest that a single community can’t ever have all the benefits of discourse; some will have to concentrate on open moderation in order to win allies, while others will need to raise their standards in order to focus on the actual work of social improvement.

I empathize with your frustrations and even the anger that springs from that agitation. I’ve a personal interest in building communities that bridge large social divides with the intent of fostering constructive discussion and (ultimately) productive action towards breaking down many of the artificial barriers between such factions. I have a sense that the attitudes and habits that feed privilege are inexorably related to the structures that propagate social tribalism; so I feel an onus to tackle these matters together. The problems are daunting.

On the one hand, I feel there’s value to be had in inclusive forums that encourage any interested parties to participate. The trade-off to the promise of increased mind-share is the reduced signal to noise ratio and the growing likelihood of derailed discussions. The hard-line theorists must exist - both because people should be free to strive for an ideal in their own lives and because they enrich us all by exploring the possibilities that are open to a society that’s worked through these problems. At the same time, I feel a strong desire to foster productive outreach. The unprivileged certainly don’t owe an education to the privileged but (as you said) educating the privileged does improve the world for everyone.

I’m struggling to conceive of ways a community can be built that balances my desire for inclusion and diplomacy with the need to reduce the “noise” from the trolls and provide idealists with a comfortable space. I don’t labor under the delusion that I’ve got the experience, understanding, or facilities to come up with these innovations in a vacuum, so I’ve been searching for others who’re tackling similar ideas. I’m excited to see the way you’ve summarized many of the challenges that face this sort of effort. I’d be curious to see if anyone has examples of systems or existing communities that’ve had success in balancing some of these conflicts. Perhaps just ideas on the matter?